[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by erick295

I think his point is that in the 7th century no one knew iron had 26 electrons and came from stars, so that means the Quran had to have been written by a god. People use this kind of stuff to "prove" that the Bible is true, too. It's pretty ridiculous.

Yes and no.

People tried to claim that the book of Daniel had to be written around the 2nd century BC because is was WAAAAY to accurate a prophesy to be written in the 6th.

Later findings give more creedence to the book actually being written by Daniel in the 6th century, and that his prophetic accounts were extraordinarily accurate.

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by Empire2500

I'm currently flipping through a movie,about science and religion.Well,more specifically,the Quran and science,and how we can prove that the Quran is the word of God.

I'm not sure if this would spark a debate,but I find these really amazing,so I thought so will a few of you.

Example 1:
Iron

Surat Al-Hadid mentions that iron was brought down to earth and would have many uses for mankind.

Where does iron comes from?Don't stars produce them?And when the star can't bear the weight,a process called nova,or supernova,happens?The iron floats in the void until it's pulled by the gravitational pull of the Earth.

Now how the heck can someone know that in the 7th century

Update:Also,(I dont know how it works) every word in the Quran has a numeric value.Isn't it amazing that the word Hadid in Arabic has the numerical value 26..and that Iron on the table of elements is number 26?

I've heard the same thing from a Muslim friend of mine. He also mentioned a couple of other examples of scientific knowledge contained within the Quran.

I read an article about how this point of view of the Quran started. The Golden Age of Islam (an era when Islam led the world in terms of scientific knowledge, mathematics, and technology) ended when some influential Islamic leaders decided that all knowledge was contained within the Quran.

During the Golden Age, the mentality was one of seeking knowledge in nature. One of finding Allah in nature through scientific inquiry. And the results of that mentality were the ascendence of Islam to the scientific leadership of the world. That all ended with the type of thought you mentioned here.

If Islam can find a way to bring back that Golden Age mentality, the number of Muslim Nobel prize winners would probably skyrocket.

[Empire2500]

One:This thread is not being used to take offensive,or defensive.This thread is just to share some wierd or amazing things in religion and the Books.Specifically the Quran.But if you find something in the Bible,Torah,etc,interesting,share it here.It wouldn't be considered hijacking.

Two:The reason why it's understandable that most of you don't believe in this or don't care is because you automatically think that science and religion don't go together;like oil and water:They dont mix!The Quran is not a book of science of course,but there are key scientific facts in it that have only been discovered recently that make you wonder how (this is if you don't believe in God) a person would've known all this in the seventh century.The Arab's knowledge in that century was primitive;they still had groundless beliefs and superstitions such as:They thought mountains were holding up the sky.

[Empire2500]

Originally Posted by iltos

...or maybe a modern day infomercial for penile enhancement.

Haha,take out the "Quranic",and I would've believed it too.Although that doesn't come to my head first,if that's what you're thinking

[Empire2500]

Originally Posted by valis

look! Dirt!

I understand that you don't care about all this.Hey,I respect that,everyone has his/her beliefs.I wouldn't even go up to that Raelian guy and tell him he's crazy,or Pinki who believes that PCs will be the future body,and tell her she's crazy.

[Stoner]

Empire said:

but there are key scientific facts in it that have only been discovered recently that make you wonder how ...........................a person would've known all this in the seventh century.

You've made a claim, provide the examples

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Empire2500

One:This thread is not being used to take offensive,or defensive.This thread is just to share some wierd or amazing things in religion and the Books.Specifically the Quran.But if you find something in the Bible,Torah,etc,interesting,share it here.It wouldn't be considered hijacking.

Two:The reason why it's understandable that most of you don't believe in this or don't care is because you automatically think that science and religion don't go together;like oil and water:They dont mix!The Quran is not a book of science of course,but there are key scientific facts in it that have only been discovered recently that make you wonder how (this is if you don't believe in God) a person would've known all this in the seventh century.The Arab's knowledge in that century was primitive;they still had groundless beliefs and superstitions such as:They thought mountains were holding up the sky.

Actually you are misinformed at why people don't see this as astounding....many of the worlds religious beliefs are said to have prophesized and numerologized, and whatever elsized all sorts of things that are said to be proof of the wisdom way back.
I have been hearing about these things since my teenage years. It is not a new thing.

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by Empire2500

One:This thread is not being used to take offensive,or defensive.This thread is just to share some wierd or amazing things in religion and the Books.Specifically the Quran.But if you find something in the Bible,Torah,etc,interesting,share it here.It wouldn't be considered hijacking.

Then it should probably be moved to Random Discussion and you should edit your first post to include that. It's bound to attract a lot of flak here in Civ-deb.

Originally Posted by Empire

Two:The reason why it's understandable that most of you don't believe in this or don't care is because you automatically think that science and religion don't go together;like oil and water:They dont mix!

This is a popular way of looking at things. And it makes sense. Unfortunately, if you disagree, you put yourself in the company of people such as Richard Dawkins, a biologist who (almost ) claims that he can prove there is no God.

[canndy]

Originally Posted by Empire2500

One:This thread is not being used to take offensive,or defensive.This thread is just to share some wierd or amazing things in religion and the Books.Specifically the Quran.But if you find something in the Bible,Torah,etc,interesting,share it here.It wouldn't be considered hijacking.

Two:The reason why it's understandable that most of you don't believe in this or don't care is because you automatically think that science and religion don't go together;like oil and water:They dont mix!The Quran is not a book of science of course,but there are key scientific facts in it that have only been discovered recently that make you wonder how (this is if you don't believe in God) a person would've known all this in the seventh century.The Arab's knowledge in that century was primitive;they still had groundless beliefs and superstitions such as:They thought mountains were holding up the sky.

Good post!


"We sent aforetime Our messengers with clear signs and sent down them the Book and the Balance (of right and wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down iron, in which is (material for) Mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of strength, exalted in Might (And able to enforce His Will). (The Noble Quran, 57:25)"

You can read this article regarding IRON: http://www.universalunity.net/iron.htm

[canndy]

"Allah is He Who Created seven firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends all things In (His) Knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"


The seven firmaments and earth...
7 layers of our atmosphere
troposphere
stratosphere
ozone layer
mesosphere
thermosphere
ionosphere
exosphere

7 layers that make up EARTH
crust
lithosphere
upper mantle
astenoshpere
lower mantle
outer core
inner core

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Empire2500

One:This thread is not being used to take offensive,or defensive.This thread is just to share some wierd or amazing things in religion and the Books.Specifically the Quran.But if you find something in the Bible,Torah,etc,interesting,share it here.It wouldn't be considered hijacking.

.

Bandit is right....The wording that you started the thread out with was not inclusive of others ideaologies and religions views on their written material that might be in the vein of having prophetic or proven by science elements. You made a claim like it was Holy Sanskrit to everyone (that is a pun, and meant in humor)....
It might be more constructive to open it up with an invitation to all beliefs and religions that make claim to these things and others that the believers find interesting, as there are plenty.......Maybe Random is a more neutral place to do that?

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by canndy

"We sent aforetime Our messengers with clear signs and sent down them the Book and the Balance (of right and wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down iron, in which is (material for) Mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of strength, exalted in Might (And able to enforce His Will). (The Noble Quran, 57:25)"

And as canndy is showing, putting it in context will give people a better idea what text you are referencing from......It is just a suggestion

[canndy]

"HE has let free The two bodies Of flowing water, Meeting together: Between them is a Barrier Which they do not transgress." (QUR'AN 55:19:20)

In the Arabic text the word 'barzakh' means a barrier or a partition. The Arabic word 'maraja' literally means 'they both meet and mix with each other.' Early commentators of the QUR'AN were unable to explain the two opposite meanings for the two bodies of water, i.e. they meet and mix, and at the same time, there is a barrier between them. Modern Science has discovered that in places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has ita own temperature, salinity and density. {Principles of Oceanography, Davis, pp. 92-93.} Oceanologists are now in a better position to explain this verse. There is a slanted unseen water barrier between the seas through which water from one sea passes to the other. But when the water from one sea enters the other sea, it loses its distinctive characteristic and becomes homogenized with the other water. In a way this barrier serves as a transitional homogenizing area for the two waters. This scientific phenonmenon mentioned in the QUR'AN was also confirmed by Dr. William Hay who is a well-known marine scientist and Professor og Geological Sciences at the University of Colorado, U.S.A.

"And made a separating bar Between the two bodies Of flowing water?" (Quran 27:61)

This phenomenon occurs in several places, including the divider between the Mediteranean and the Atlantic Ocean at Gibralter. But when the QUR'AN speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the exisence of ' a forbidding partition' with the barrier.

"It is HE WHO has Let free the two bodies Of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, And the other salty and bitter; Yet has HE Made a barrier between them, And a partition that is forbidden To be passed." (Quran 25:53)

Modern Science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh(sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from that found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuarie is a "pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers." {Oceanography, Gross, p.242. Also see Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301 ; Oceanography, Gross, p. 244 and Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp.300-301} This phenomenon occurs in several places, including Egypt, where the river Nile flows into the Medierranean Sea.

[redivivus]

Originally Posted by canndy

"Allah is He Who Created seven firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends all things In (His) Knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"


The seven firmaments and earth...
7 layers of our atmosphere
troposphere
stratosphere
ozone layer
mesosphere
thermosphere
ionosphere
exosphere

7 layers that make up EARTH
crust
lithosphere
upper mantle
astenoshpere
lower mantle
outer core
inner core

LOL! The 'ozone layer' is part of the Stratosphere. It looks to me like some muslim was desperately looking for a correlation here, even though it would prove very little.

There are only 5 main layers to the earth's atmosphere.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_of_Space.png

PS - Id be interested to see the sources you are getting your information from canndy.

[brendandonhu]

Originally Posted by canndy

"Allah is He Who Created seven firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends all things In (His) Knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"


The seven firmaments and earth...
7 layers of our atmosphere
troposphere
stratosphere
ozone layer
mesosphere
thermosphere
ionosphere
exosphere

And in reality, that doesn't add up to 7 layers because the ozone layer is part of the stratosphere and the ionosphere is already counted as part of the thermosphere.

7 layers that make up EARTH
crust
lithosphere
upper mantle
astenoshpere
lower mantle
outer core
inner core

The asthenosphere is included in the upper mantle, which along with the crust is included in the lithosphere already.