[linskyjack]

How many men have deserted the service since the beginning of the Iraqi adventure: Thats 8000 not 800 at the bottom---don't know how to edit it.

[erick295]

None of the above... it's a lot more. What's the debate?

[linskyjack]

Yeah, I realized that I forgot to add the a zero to the 800 number---its over 8000. This is from a report dated 3/7/2006. I just wanted to make the point that people are refusing to fight.

[erick295]

*shrug*

People have been deserting the military since the military existed

[bill.aam]

By Col. Robert D. Heinl, Jr.
North American Newspaper Alliance
Armed Forces Journal, 7 June, 1971

Desertions and Disasters

With conditions what they are in the Armed Forces, and with intense efforts on the part of elements in our society to disrupt discipline and destroy morale the consequences can be clearly measured in two ultimate indicators: man-power retention (reenlistments and their antithesis, desertions); and the state of discipline.

In both respects the picture is anything but encouraging.

Desertion, to be sure, has often been a serious problem in the past. In 1826, for example, desertions exceeded 50% of the total enlistments in the Army. During the Civil War, in 1864, Jefferson Davis reported to the Confederate Congress: "Two thirds of our men are absent, most absent without leave."

Desertion rates are going straight up in Army, Marines, and Air Force. Curiously, however, during the period since 1968 when desertion has nearly doubled for all three other services, the Navy’s rate has risen by less than 20 percent.

In 1970, the Army had 65,643 deserters, or roughly the equivalent of four infantry divisions. This desertion rate (52.3 soldiers per thousand) is well over twice the peak rate for Korea (22.5 per thousand). It is more than quadruple the 1966 desertion-rate (14.7 per thousand) of the ten well-trained, high-spirited professional Army.

If desertions continue to rise(as they are still doing this year), they will attain or surpass the WWII peak of 63 per thousand, which, incidentally, occurred in the same year (1945) when more soldiers were actually being discharged from the Army for psychoneurosis than were drafted.

The Air Force, -- relatively uninvolved in the Vietnam war, all-volunteer, management-oriented rather than disciplinary and hierarchic – enjoys a numerical rate of less that one deserter per thousand men, but even this is double what it was three years ago.

The marines in 1970 had the highest desertion index in the modern history of the Corps and, for that year at least, slightly higher than the Army’s. As the Marines now phase out of Vietnam (and haven’t taken a draftee in nearly two years), their desertions are expected to decrease sharply. Meanwhile, grimly remarked one officer, "let the <CWLMST> go. We’re all the better without them."

Letting the <CWLMST> go is something the Marines can probably afford. "The Marine Corps Isn’t Looking for a Lot of Recruits," reads a current recruiting /36/ poster, "We Just Need a Few Good Men." This is the happy situation of a Corps slimming down to an elite force again composed of true volunteers who want to be professionals.

But letting the <CWLMST> go doesn’t work at all for the Army and the Navy, who do need a lot of recruits and whose reenlistment problems are dire.

Admiral Elmo R. Zumwalt, Jr., chief of naval Operations, minces no words. "We have a personnel crisis," he recently said, "that borders on disaster."

The Navy’s crisis, as Zumwalt accurately describes it, is that of a highly technical, material oriented service that finds itself unable to retain the expensively-trained technicians needed to operate warships, which are the largest, most complex items of machinery that man makes and uses.

THE COLLAPSE OF THE ARMED FORCES

[ChrisJones]

I don't understand the relevance of comparing desertion rates in Vietnam with modern day Iraq... Could you please explain? (I'm being serious, I guess I'm missing your point )

[ChrisJones]

Scrap that! I get your point! You were answering erick!

That'll teach me to read the whole thread properly!!

My bad!

*edit* incidentally, the article you posted was an interesting, if a little long winded read. Thanks.

[erick295]

Well, now I'm confused... lol.

[redivivus]

Who did they desert from?

[linskyjack]

Mostly from the Army.

[redivivus]

Last i checked there was more than 1 army in iraq?

[Fidelista]

A friends sons outfit was delayed for deployment--approx 30 days, due to awol--possible desertion. U.S. Army --Rangers.
Looks like a morale problem and that would be expected. Some are politically aware of situation, and no one wants to sacrifice for ??? or return. Handwriting on the wall.
For the record , I have no sympathy for deserters.
Military service presumes killing and risk, no matter what ideas are in these kids heads when they enlist. I believe a warrior is expected to behave like one , and live up to what he/she has sworn to. No excuses.
They are volunteers.
Its up to citizens to get them out of mess-- if thats what it is--all of us. They are precious.
We allowed this to happen and its up to us to stop it , if indeed it needs stopping.
I believe it does {Iraq adventure}.
Maybe oldfashioned I am , but when you swear to something of free will, you have to follow through--do what is expected as soldier.
This thing will never be over quick enough for me. >f

[erick295]

Most people do follow through but it's pretty much a given that when you get a group of people together to do something, some of them are going to drop out... and TBH I can see why they might change their mind once they see what it's really like...

[linskyjack]

As far as Vietnam goes, the rate of desertion was very high---remember, we were there for many years-----I would expect that if we were to remain in Iraq for that long, the desertions would rise prodigiously.

[redivivus]

Where do they go when they desert... live in india or something?