[iltos]

Originally Posted by Mulder

LOL! when the NY Times does this crap, its called investigative reporting! Honestly--give it up, you are just making it look worse. You know damn well this is exactly wha the liberal press did to Bush--they personalized and slanted everything they could to make him look bad and you know it.

What's good for the goose it good for the gander. I honestly wish it wasn't like this--I wish the press would simply report news without slanting it, but to be fair, if they are going to do it, then it has to be done uniformly my leftist friend.

I will remind you the way the Associated Press tried to claim that Bush knew the levies would break in New Orleans--that was far far far more slanted and personalized for the audience than is this story.

no mulder....i do understand what you are saying, and agree that it's done on both sides....but there is a thing called "investigative journalism", which i applaud....the blogs i browsed picked up a story that's actually been around for several years, and made it sound like it was a sudden expose into the pelosi hypocrisy

btw....i tend to agree that if someone stands for an issue, then they should live within its definition....it seems clear that pelosi is just another politician.....

[iltos]

Originally Posted by gbrumb

ilots....if you read the sites you quote they don't exactly stand for the proposition you're attempting to assert. For example, the wages quoted have nothing to do with seasonal workers.

kudos, gb

i don't think the example i posted applies to seasonal workers....if i implied that, then i was wrong....it is however, an example of way the wage scale broadens the farther down the pecking order you go....in an industry that has such a weak union presence, i do believe that the way that individual owner and operators treat their employees must be taken into account before judgement.

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by iltos

kudos, gb

No "kudos" necessary, normally your sites (cites?) are on target.


PS: Sorry for spelling your moniker wrong.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by iltos

no mulder....i do understand what you are saying, and agree that it's done on both sides....but there is a thing called "investigative journalism", which i applaud....the blogs i browsed picked up a story that's actually been around for several years, and made it sound like it was a sudden expose into the pelosi hypocrisy

But that's just it--no major media investigated it--we have no idea whether she employees Illegals, whether she pays more than Minimume wage--nothing.

BTW--check out all the stocks this woman owns:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/pfd2...07360_2005.pdf

I guarantee you most of those companies are non-union!

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by Mulder

Its not only the wineries--she also owns a hotel and a string of resturants and thats all non-union as I understand it and she sells to non-union distributors and businesses. And there's plenty of other jobs in the wineries besides the migrant workers.

Point is she has to be better than the rest--if she is going to be pro-union, then she ought to hire union employees in all her businesses or keep her big mouth shut--she criticized many other businesses for trying to shut out union employees.

Mulder , Business doesn't organize Unions -- workers do . Never heard of a rich employer regardless of DEM /REPUB that would share any profit with those who build it --voluntarily
You expect the elite to organize themselves-- give workers the benefits they don't have too?
Pelosi may actually help --- hypocrite or not.
You know better.
What motivates the rich is $$$$ ---nothing more , whether DEM or Repub--greed crosses all lines.
Only money and force buys relief for workers ---its always been that way . We have to take our best shot. >f

[sglv]

Originally Posted by Mulder

Look Wino, I've got no beef with you-- it wasn't accurate of me to call you a hypocrite, you just happened to get the way when I was on a tirade. You're a Bush hater and your politically confused as hell, but at least you've always seemed fairly consistent in your disgust of politicians in general and your hatred of GWB. And the irony is I've never been a GWB fan from day 1 despite what the impression people have here--my problem has been always been with the gross mischaracterizations, exaggerations, speculation and outright lies. But this time I can toss facts to the wind and simply post any and everything I can find and watch the same people who did it to GWB and the Repubs scamble to defend their heros.

Mulder, I think a lot of Republicans feel this way - I know quite a few.

Do you really think they'll "defend" their heroes? They'll just say they don't have a problem with it.

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by Mulder

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/pfd2...07360_2005.pdf

Unbelievable, page 11...Potomac Investment Assoc., Gathersberg, Md...I created that!!!!!!! And its Potomac Investment Associates, Gaithersburg, Md.
I has no idea she bought into that!

[sglv]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

Never heard of a rich employer regardless of DEM /REPUB that would share any profit with those who build it --voluntarily

My employer does and oddly, they're democrats. Everytime they've gotten a good "hit," the entire firm gets a bonus (and we've received several bonuses that range from 4 months salary, up to a year's salary in the 9 years I've worked for them). Sometimes they've handed out an extra paycheck just because they had a good quarter. They call it sharing the wealth.

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by sglv

My employer does and oddly, they're democrats. Everytime they've gotten a good "hit," the entire firm gets a bonus (and we've received several bonuses that range from 4 months salary, up to a year's salary in the 9 years I've worked for them). Sometimes they've handed out an extra paycheck just because they had a good quarter. They call it sharing the wealth.

Please our Fidelista likes to live in the land of delusion......lord he thinks Castro is a great guy.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

Only money and force buys relief for workers ---its always been that way . We have to take our best shot. >f

Sorry Fidelista but I vigorously disagree. "Force"--i.e., the advesarial relationship that exists between unions and managements is what has soured most people--even many union employees (virtually all who leave and many who still are union).

The only thing that will help workers is an economy so strong that there are more jobs than there are workers to fill them--that will drive the price of labor up--its basic supply and demand--you cannot change the laws of supply and demand any more than you can the laws of physics. I've tried to explain this as have others with a background in economics with regard to the MW until we are blue in the face--it falls on deaf ears because people are so blinded by their ideology that they refuse to see the blatantly obvious.

No offense, but unions are nothing more than mini-marxist organizations--i.e., the basic premise being that equality can be "forced" in an economic system with little or no reward for productivity and no incentive to invest (or create). We can all continue to beat this horse to death--the simple fact it leftists will continue to ignore economics and history in favor of political ideology--continuing to move what was designed as a free market by our founding fathers into a socialist system (they knew exactly how dangerous a controlling centralized government was and how destructive). The economy will go into the toilet, capitalists will gain back ground, the economy will thrive again, and leftists will come back to screw it up again--that's how the cycle goes!

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by sglv

My employer does and oddly, they're democrats. Everytime they've gotten a good "hit," the entire firm gets a bonus (and we've received several bonuses that range from 4 months salary, up to a year's salary in the 9 years I've worked for them). Sometimes they've handed out an extra paycheck just because they had a good quarter. They call it sharing the wealth.

And many employers have defined profit sharing plans and give out shares of stock. Many of Walmart's long term employees have very very very nice pensions resulting from that sharing of wealth. Its interesting that Walmart catches so much flack because its got lots of long term loyal employees.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by sglv

My employer does and oddly, they're democrats. Everytime they've gotten a good "hit," the entire firm gets a bonus (and we've received several bonuses that range from 4 months salary, up to a year's salary in the 9 years I've worked for them). Sometimes they've handed out an extra paycheck just because they had a good quarter. They call it sharing the wealth.

You are blessed .
If this was how things worked , there would be no need of Unions.
>f

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

You are blessed .
If this was how things worked , there would be no need of Unions.
>f

Why do we need them now?

[bassetman]

Walmart etc.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by Mulder

Why do we need them now?

Greed. >f