[laneseda]

A Charter of Muslim Understanding was presented to the European Parliament last month. It will be interesting to see what others think, and what comes, of it. A link to the Charter may be found at
http://www.answering-islam.org/Terro...im_charter.htm

Regards,
Lane

[TooBad]

Originally Posted by laneseda

A Charter of Muslim Understanding was presented to the European Parliament last month. It will be interesting to see what others think, and what comes, of it. A link to the Charter may be found at
http://www.answering-islam.org/Terro...im_charter.htm

Regards,
Lane

Why is it that everyone is supposed to be tollerant and understanding of the only religion that is completely intollerant of others and seeks no understanding of anyone else?

[Paquadez]

Well, I can tell you that in France, a majority of normal people are fed to the teeth with all this nonsense!

The average French attitude is "When in Rome..............".

The UK of course - which has bent over backwards so far to accommodate ethnic minorities (who thereafter immediately utilise freedoom of speech and various insane human rights legislation to attack the very institution which offered them protection!), it is now in danger of vanishing right up its own primary orifice - has now reached the point of heading towards civil violence from the core Middle Englanders, who make up the majority of stable, taxpaying honest residents.

Stand by for the blood and gore.

Paq

[Chicon]

Hi Paq,

I've just learned about this :

Revealed: preachers' messages of hate

Muslim worshippers are being urged by radical clerics to ignore British law

An undercover investigation has revealed disturbing evidence of Islamic extremism at a number of Britain's leading mosques and Muslim institutions, including an organisation praised by the Prime Minister.

Secret video footage reveals Muslim preachers exhorting followers to prepare for jihad, to hit girls for not wearing the hijab, and to create a 'state within a state'. Many of the preachers are linked to the Wahhabi strain of Islam practised in Saudi Arabia, which funds a number of Britain's leading Islamic institutions.

Link : http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...984530,00.html

[Knotbored]

I am confused over here in the backwoods USA----
Is there such a thing as EU PARLIMENT ?

Are European countries now under the heel of some federation ? wow I wasn't aware of that except for currency standards.

[MSM Hobbes]

Make sure that ya actually read the Charter itself...

True, based just upon the title, it sounds like non-Muslims are to 'understand' Islam, their way. However, the opposite is true via this Charter, as it will call for Muslims to "Respect non-Muslim religions and issue a fatwa (an Islamic religious decree) prohibiting the use of force, violence or threats to their followers; to Respect all other civilizations, cultures and traditions and promote the understanding of the precedence of national laws over Shariah law; to Respect Western freedoms; etc."

Ok - that sounds all peachy good...

But, two points come to mind:

However, I as I have doubts that the signature of a Muslim fundamentalist on this charter will really mean much? Especially since in such twisted minds, Islam encourages "al-taqiyya" or "al-kithman", which is the lying & deception that is allowed and encouraged in their waging of Jihad, as telling a lie will be good for their cause.

"al-Taqiyya": "Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury."
Check out: http://www.al-islam.org/ENCYCLOPEDIA/chapter6b/1.html

Secondly, on another hand, is it fair to those that follow a religious minority, even one that can potentially cause so much grief by the acts of fundamentalists in their midst, sign what could be considered a "loyalty oath"? What happens if a Muslim refuses to sign this? What if they do, but are just lying - as some believe the Koran allows, esp. in such times, and esp. to infidels?

I guess at least one positive that can come from this would be to open up [yet more] dialog between the various peoples of various religions. Yet, is this the proper method? I really think not. The best, IMHO, means to reduce the bloodshed and hate and misunderstanding must come from the leaders of Islam.

In Westerner culture, religion and gov't are, for the most part, separate entities - but to many Islams, esp. fundamentalists, these two are not different, religion is their state. So, how do we share this relatively small planet?

[Paquadez]

Originally Posted by Knotbored

I am confused over here in the backwoods USA----
Is there such a thing as EU PARLIMENT ?

Are European countries now under the heel of some federation ? wow I wasn't aware of that except for currency standards.

Sadly KB, the answer is yes. The EU boasts a European parliamant. member states elect members of the European parliament: in the UK they care called MEPs (Member of the European parliament).

One of the worst aspects about it is the EU Commissioners: these are mainly failed politicians, boosted into a wonderful gravy train by their parties. Theya re completely unelected, yet have sweeping powers to make decisions binding on all member states.

At present, the EU is seeking a clear mandate from its member states to ratofy its constitution. Once ratified, this will mean almost total loss of sovereignty by all members states.

Since the EU government is yet another layer, of mainly pointless bureaurocracy, it is full of Ivory Tower Dwelling dreamers who are trying to create the United States of Europe.

The concept of an economic and trading bloc was good, since this would assemble states with a population exceeding 450 million. (USA currently 260 million) and could be a formidable global economic force.

Unfortunately, as this awful monstrosity is the brain child of politicians, thirsty for ever greater levels of power, they are now adding Eastern European ex-communist states with corrupt and collapsed fiscal systems.

My own belief is that it will all crash as various original member states (Germany, France, Italy, Beneluxe, etc) become dismayed at the costs and intereferecne with the government and management of their own countries.

We shall see.................

Paq

[MSM Hobbes]

Sidetracking a bit regardings the EU's Parliament, there is a brief summary here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...troduction.stm

I do like this bit:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/h...tml/apathy.stm

Sorry, one more thing in this thread re: EU's Parliament:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/p...default_en.htm

[iltos]

interesting document....a little bewildering that it had to come from a western source....this is the kind of thing many westerners have been expecting to come FROM islam

so....it was apparently released last month...any response yet from within the muslim community?

[TooBad]

Originally Posted by Paquadez

Sadly KB, the answer is yes. The EU boasts a European parliamant. member states elect members of the European parliament: in the UK they care called MEPs (Member of the European parliament).

One of the worst aspects about it is the EU Commissioners: these are mainly failed politicians, boosted into a wonderful gravy train by their parties. Theya re completely unelected, yet have sweeping powers to make decisions binding on all member states.

At present, the EU is seeking a clear mandate from its member states to ratofy its constitution. Once ratified, this will mean almost total loss of sovereignty by all members states.

Since the EU government is yet another layer, of mainly pointless bureaurocracy, it is full of Ivory Tower Dwelling dreamers who are trying to create the United States of Europe.

The concept of an economic and trading bloc was good, since this would assemble states with a population exceeding 450 million. (USA currently 260 million) and could be a formidable global economic force.

Unfortunately, as this awful monstrosity is the brain child of politicians, thirsty for ever greater levels of power, they are now adding Eastern European ex-communist states with corrupt and collapsed fiscal systems.

My own belief is that it will all crash as various original member states (Germany, France, Italy, Beneluxe, etc) become dismayed at the costs and intereferecne with the government and management of their own countries.

We shall see.................

Paq

Sadly Paq, over here they are (serrentipitously) trying to create the Soviet States of Amerika! I suppose that that is actually what they are creating over there is the Soviet States of Europe, unelected loser beaureucrats running things, indead!