[lotuseclat79]

Article here.

-- Tom

[Littlefield]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

Article here.

-- Tom

Love that EXXon stock

[ekim68]

Love that EXXon price-fixing and collusion, too. Must be hard to run a business with the government giving you everything you want.

[Littlefield]

Proof ,that Exxon price fixed you have none . It may be your opinion but that is all it is without evidence.

[Paquadez]

I feel the Exxon debate has been very well covered in another current thread.

The SPO: well, of course, stockpiling crude is only one bit of the holistic dynamic.

The US needs to import huge quantities of refined product, each and every day.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6019739/ Good analysis here.

When arguing this area, people forget two salient and critical details: one, that all product cannot be produced from one type of crude oil; it needs a mixture of light, medium and heavy crude to create all the fractionates. Two, that economic dependancy includes obviosuly gasolene, but also diesel, kero, JP, lube oil, Burining Oil, straight run burning oil, heavy oil and equally important, all the petro-chem feedstocks such as napthalene, ethylene etc.

Further, refineries are designed and built to deal, optimally with one or two types of crude, specifically. For example, some products need a mixture of heavy and sweet light (used to "Cut" the heavy).

Iran is now a net exporter of a wide range of refined product. New joint ventures are in train with India and China (Surprise!).

If the USA threatens and imposes sactions (i.e. trade embargoes) on Iran and further, freezes or worse, sequestrates Iranian monetary assets the danger here is that the Arab oil producers (and Indonesia, a major supplier of both crude and product and an Islamic state) will in all probability combine with Russia and price all oil cargoes in Euros: and thereby create the financial backdrop to the domino effect collapse of most major US banks.

Interesting that Vladamir Putin has been dragging back so many previously privatised oil and gas assets into state control (or partial control) and attacking so many of the oil and gas biz oligarchs from Boris Yeltsen's day.

Why? Since Japan, China and all holders of major multi-billion dollar deposits and Federal paper will simply take a short term loss and throw massive volumes of US treasuries, currency etc onto the global capital forex markets and come out the other side controlling the global oil biz. Which is what they all want.

These days, global diplomacy is more effective than 19th cent. gunboat tactics. Diplomacy is also fairly essential.

Paq

[Littlefield]

I agree about Russia they are not our friend.

[Paquadez]

They're no one's friend!

Just because the Cold War is over, doesn't mean the conflict between Russia and the rest of the World is.

They are supreme chess players: and superlative tacitians and the Rodina is all to Russians.

Paq

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Paquadez

I feel the Exxon debate has been very well covered in another current thread.

The SPO: well, of course, stockpiling crude is only one bit of the holistic dynamic.

The US needs to import huge quantities of refined product, each and every day.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6019739/ Good analysis here.

When arguing this area, people forget two salient and critical details: one, that all product cannot be produced from one type of crude oil; it needs a mixture of light, medium and heavy crude to create all the fractionates. Two, that economic dependancy includes obviosuly gasolene, but also diesel, kero, JP, lube oil, Burining Oil, straight run burning oil, heavy oil and equally important, all the petro-chem feedstocks such as napthalene, ethylene etc.

Further, refineries are designed and built to deal, optimally with one or two types of crude, specifically. For example, some products need a mixture of heavy and sweet light (used to "Cut" the heavy).

Iran is now a net exporter of a wide range of refined product. New joint ventures are in train with India and China (Surprise!).

If the USA threatens and imposes sactions (i.e. trade embargoes) on Iran and further, freezes or worse, sequestrates Iranian monetary assets the danger here is that the Arab oil producers (and Indonesia, a major supplier of both crude and product and an Islamic state) will in all probability combine with Russia and price all oil cargoes in Euros: and thereby create the financial backdrop to the domino effect collapse of most major US banks.

Interesting that Vladamir Putin has been dragging back so many previously privatised oil and gas assets into state control (or partial control) and attacking so many of the oil and gas biz oligarchs from Boris Yeltsen's day.

Why? Since Japan, China and all holders of major multi-billion dollar deposits and Federal paper will simply take a short term loss and throw massive volumes of US treasuries, currency etc onto the global capital forex markets and come out the other side controlling the global oil biz. Which is what they all want.

These days, global diplomacy is more effective than 19th cent. gunboat tactics. Diplomacy is also fairly essential.

Paq

interesting post, paq

just trying to make sure i understand...you're saying that the point of the article was "myopic" (that word again ), and that the stockpiling of oil is an effective tool in a larger diplomatic struggle.

that about right?

[lotuseclat79]

Hi Paq,

What's Rodina?

-- Tom

[Littlefield]

It means Motherland .

[Paquadez]

Hi Tom.

Correct LField, Motherland; as important to the true Russian as was/is the Fatherland to the German.

Not really, iltos.

The SPR only covers crude.

The US is woefully short on refining capacity; as well as sadly lacking on product storage too.

Oil has now (quite obviously) become the present major socio-economic bargaining chip in international affairs. The US has been inexorably over-reliant on both crude imports and product imports since the mid-seventies.

The US fiscal and monetary systems are hugely reliant on international investors maintaining and increasing their non-interest bearing holdings of external US $, in order to continue firstly funding the deficits and secondly to slowly increase economic growth.

Next, the US is now totally reliant on a wide range of core imported goods and services.

Since China and now India have followed Japan to base their economic expansions and economic stability on rapidly increasing energy consumption, these states are bidding very competitively in global markets for crude, gas and product.

Any non-diplomatic move by the USA will certainly trip a massive reaction by all the self-interested states.

Thus nowadays, actions taken without the agreement and absolute backing of these competitor states is simply not possible any more.

Simplistic prescriptors don't work, unfortunately. The World has become an intensely complex place.

Paq