[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by valis

Indeed it does. But the article also goes on to state that this is a but a drop in the bucket of replenishment compared to where the ice pack was 20 years ago.

making my point about the fact that all good news must be curtailed by hype.

that would be the colloquial 'we', not the collective.

Thanks for the clarification.
Sure you don't want to buy a carbon offset to clear your mind?

dunno that I said that, Lan.....unless you are referring to your misinterpretation of the 'we' thing, I'm pretty sure I've not advocated seeding clouds, or, for that matter, monkeying with mother nature.

k. and yes ... I was keying on your "we" comment. So I take it back since you clarified.

There's a few questions we must ask about this subject.

1. Is global warming real? Yes Since prior to the industrial revolution, the planet has been in a basically warming trend. In fact the warming trend started at the peak of the last ice age.

2. Is global warming man-made? Warming has been occuring since the peak of the last ice age, therefore warming could not be "caused" by man. The water has been rising for thousands of years.

3. Is mankind's contribution to the warming significant? I do not think that it is. There are far too many natural fractors simply being ignored by those who wish to attribute the warming to humanity .... namely the USA.

4. Is warming a bad thing? For many, crop seasons will be extended and this warming will be a very good thing. Currently more people die in this world from cold related events than heat related events.
Why does everyone automatically assume that warming is a disaster?

Just some interesting things to ponder.

[valis]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

There's a few questions we must ask about this subject.

okie doke.....and no need to retract anything, simple misunderstanding....

Originally Posted by LANMaster

1. Is global warming real? Yes Since prior to the industrial revolution, the planet has been in a basically warming trend. In fact the warming trend started at the peak of the last ice age.

Indeed. Glad you see that.

Originally Posted by LANMaster

2. Is global warming man-made? Warming has been occuring since the peak of the last ice age, therefore warming could not be "caused" by man. The water has been rising for thousands of years.

again, agreed. But I'll deal with this more below.

Originally Posted by LANMaster

3. Is mankind's contribution to the warming significant? I do not think that it is. There are far too many natural fractors simply being ignored by those who wish to attribute the warming to humanity .... namely the USA.

Is it significant? No. Probably below 10%, maybe even below 5%. But the point you are missing, and have continued to miss, is that in an ecosystem as variable and vast as the global climate, even a change of, say 5%, can make a HUGE difference.

Think of something as simple as your golf swing. Lift, drop, hit, follow through, watch in land in water (well, now that's sort of a gimme, according to the talk I had with my father last night, doesn't matter where you hit it, it's going in water), and hit another. Now imagine if your clubface at point of impact was not square; instead, it was off by 1 degree. Extend that one degree of error over 250 yards horizontally, and you will see very bad results indeed.

The global climate system is similar in that way. A small change at any key point could create enormous changes further down the line. That is what we have here. Humans HAVE contributed to the co2 in the atmosphere, but nowhere near volcanoes or even the ocean. However, that small amount that they have contributed has been enough to unbalance what was previously a fairly well-balanced system.

Again, the facts are all around us. Rice farming has given way to shrimp farming. Sea water IS on the rise, and the ice caps and sheets ARE shrinking. The thermohaline current has slowed dramatically, and that's possibly the most serious of all.

What will happen? Nobody has an answer; too many variables.

Doesn't change the fact that it's happening now, though.

Originally Posted by LANMaster

4. Is warming a bad thing? For many, crop seasons will be extended and this warming will be a very good thing. Currently more people die in this world from cold related events than heat related events.
Why does everyone automatically assume that warming is a disaster?

Just some interesting things to ponder.

Side effect of that crop thing is the water needed to raise said crops. Where is the water for the corn in the American SW going to come from, as the Colorado snowpack has been declining over the past decade? This I know as sooth as all my friends and family in Colorado have had to ration water for lawns for the past decade, and it gets worse every year. I even heard about some crackpot idea to run water from the Great Lakes to the SW to assist in the crops there, as the natural aquifiers are not being replenished wrt to the rate that they are being depleted.

Again, action, reaction.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by valis

okie doke.....and no need to retract anything, simple misunderstanding....

:up}

Indeed. Glad you see that.

again, agreed. But I'll deal with this more below.

Is it significant? No. Probably below 10%, maybe even below 5%. But the point you are missing, and have continued to miss, is that in an ecosystem as variable and vast as the global climate, even a change of, say 5%, can make a HUGE difference.

3-4% I remember seeing somewhere. Thats 96-97% natural.
I disagree that humanity makes a huge difference. I believe it is more like an unperceivable difference. A single small volcanic eruption makes a far greater impact on global climate than humanity.

Think of something as simple as your golf swing. Lift, drop, hit, follow through, watch in land in water (well, now that's sort of a gimme, according to the talk I had with my father last night, doesn't matter where you hit it, it's going in water), and hit another. Now imagine if your clubface at point of impact was not square; instead, it was off by 1 degree. Extend that one degree of error over 250 yards horizontally, and you will see very bad results indeed.

That's why I aim left .... to correct the result of my slice.

The global climate system is similar in that way. A small change at any key point could create enormous changes further down the line. That is what we have here. Humans HAVE contributed to the co2 in the atmosphere, but nowhere near volcanoes or even the ocean. However, that small amount that they have contributed has been enough to unbalance what was previously a fairly well-balanced system.

All plants need CO2 to survive.
Look at all the CO2 and methane caused by beer. Just beer alone.

Again, the facts are all around us. Rice farming has given way to shrimp farming. Sea water IS on the rise, and the ice caps and sheets ARE shrinking. The thermohaline current has slowed dramatically, and that's possibly the most serious of all.

What's wronmg with shrimp farming?

What will happen? Nobody has an answer; too many variables.

Yet the hypsters are in panick mode anyway.

Doesn't change the fact that it's happening now, though.

Never denied that. Just arguing that it is natural, and irreversible, and unslowable.

Side effect of that crop thing is the water needed to raise said crops. Where is the water for the corn in the American SW going to come from, as the Colorado snowpack has been declining over the past decade? This I know as sooth as all my friends and family in Colorado have had to ration water for lawns for the past decade, and it gets worse every year. I even heard about some crackpot idea to run water from the Great Lakes to the SW to assist in the crops there, as the natural aquifiers are not being replenished wrt to the rate that they are being depleted.

Again, action, reaction.

I disagree with the choices of reaction being proposed.

Oh .... and that Colorado snowpack? It's growing at record levels - over 100%, not shrinking
Link
Link
Link
Link

Nice try though.

[valis]

wrt to the snowpack, you are right....it's the best since '97, which is sort of the point I am making here.....

and wrt to the shrimp farming, nothing's wrong with it.

Only that a few years ago it was rice farming in those areas.

[Stoner]

And the water keeps rising

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by Stoner

And the water keeps rising

.... and has been since the last ice age.

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

.... and has been since the last ice age.

Yep!
I hope the caves in those Arkansas hollars aren't below the water line......that global warming's a biatch!

Maybe you could tend my boat rental counter? We're on higher ground

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by Stoner

Yep!
I hope the caves in those Arkansas hollars aren't below the water line......that global warming's a biatch!

Maybe you could tend my boat rental counter? We're on higher ground

See! There's another plus to global warming!

[LANMaster]

Another thing.

There are FAR more important things to deal with in this world than global warming.

Such as malaria.

[BlackSpike]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

4. Is warming a bad thing? For many, crop seasons will be extended and this warming will be a very good thing. Currently more people die in this world from cold related events than heat related events.
Why does everyone automatically assume that warming is a disaster?

Just some interesting things to ponder.

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Another thing.

There are FAR more important things to deal with in this world than global warming.

Such as malaria.

Isn't malaria a hot-weather problem?

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by BlackSpike

Isn't malaria a hot-weather problem?

No. It's a mosquito thing.

[BlackSpike]

#remembers to pack his mosquito-repellent for next trip to Greenland.
http://www.traveldoctor.co.uk/malaria.htm

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by BlackSpike

#remembers to pack his mosquito-repellent for next trip to Greenland.
http://www.traveldoctor.co.uk/malaria.htm

Better advised to pack some very warm clothing.

No malaria in Greenland


The World Health Organization estimates that each year 300-500 million cases of malaria occur worldwide and more than two million people die of malaria.
Skyrocketing since the ban on DDT.

Countries where there is currently no risk of malaria:

Albania
Algeria
Antigua/Barbuda
Antilles
Australia
Austria
Azores
Bahamas
Bahrain
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Bermuda
Brunei
Bulgaria
Canada
Cayman Islands
Chile
Cook Islands
Croatia
Cuba
Czech Republic
Cyprus
Dominica
Easter Islands
Estonia
Denmark
Fiji
Finland
France
Galapagos
Germany
Greece
Greenland
Grenada
Guadeloupe
Guam
Hawaii
Holland
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kiribati
Kuwait
Latvia
Lebanon
Lesotho
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia
Macao
Madeira
Maldives
Malta
Margarita Island
Martinique
Moldova
Mongolia
Montserrat
Nauru
New Caledonia
New Zealand
Niue
Norway
Pitcairn Island
Poland
Portugal
Puerto Rico
Qatar
Reunion Islands
Romania
Russia
St. Helena
St. Kitts & Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent & Grenadines
Samoa
Seychelles
Sicily
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Tahiti
Taiwan
Tenerife
Trinidad & Tobago
Tunisia
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
USA
Virgin Islands
Wake Island
Yugoslavia

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Another thing.

There are FAR more important things to deal with in this world than global warming.

Such as malaria.

I think you just proved there are many countries not affected.

Here was your list:

Countries where there is currently no risk of malaria:

Albania
Algeria
Antigua/Barbuda
Antilles
Australia
Austria
Azores
Bahamas
Bahrain
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Bermuda
Brunei
Bulgaria
Canada
Cayman Islands
Chile
Cook Islands
Croatia
Cuba
Czech Republic
Cyprus
Dominica
Easter Islands
Estonia
Denmark
Fiji
Finland
France
Galapagos
Germany
Greece
Greenland
Grenada
Guadeloupe
Guam
Hawaii
Holland
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kiribati
Kuwait
Latvia
Lebanon
Lesotho
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia
Macao
Madeira
Maldives
Malta
Margarita Island
Martinique
Moldova
Mongolia
Montserrat
Nauru
New Caledonia
New Zealand
Niue
Norway
Pitcairn Island
Poland
Portugal
Puerto Rico
Qatar
Reunion Islands
Romania
Russia
St. Helena
St. Kitts & Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent & Grenadines
Samoa
Seychelles
Sicily
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Tahiti
Taiwan
Tenerife
Trinidad & Tobago
Tunisia
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
USA
Virgin Islands
Wake Island
Yugoslavia

Looks like most of the world.


I suspect most on that list are affected by climate change, though.
And I see the US is on that list.


hmmmmm................




Stupid corporate socialists.............

[BlackSpike]

I'm sorry, I shall try to make my humour more obvious next time. maybe the forum needs some (JOKE) tags?

You said (and I quoted) that cold was the bigger killer, and then said that a serious problem to deal with was malaria!
I suggested that malaria was a heat-related problem, and you riposted that it was a mosquito problem.
My JOKE that I should take mosquito repellent to Greenland (a COLD place), linking a picture of malaria-risk countries, seemingly in the Tropics, a traditionally HOT place!

Keep up, LAN, I don't want to have to explain each of my posts like this!!!!