[RSM123]

Whether you watch it or not, whether you regard it as mindless brutality, or two consenting adults prepared to 'take their chances' .... I would like to know whether others here agree that this 'sport' should abolish the use of gloves, and revert to bare knuckle boxing ?

Bare knuckle boxing has, since the advent of the modren form, been stigmatised as something unprofessional, and therefore inferior to the current format of two gloved opponents going at each other within the bounds of the so called 'Queensbury Rules.'

One theory proposed in the last few years, supposedly after extended study, was that boxing gloves, while allowing the hand to withstand greater punishment, meant that as a consequence, the brain of the opponent sustained a far greater battering.

Muhammed Ali, with his 'shakes' is the highest profile figure to suffer a debilitating condition - though of course this can be attributed to Parkinson's Disease ... which can afflict anyone, even those who never have stepped inside a boxing ring.

I was looking up the bio of a well known UK based 'unlicensed boxer' ( ie could never fight for any of the recognised WBA / C / HBO / IBF titles) ... called Lenny McLean.

He was, on the unlicensed circuit, known as 'The Governor' for having had so many wins, though he was by no means undefeated. He was also the leader of a group of nightclub 'bouncers' here in London, and served time for manslaughter for killing a man in a brawl.

Here is a Youtube video in which he outlines the ( as he sees it) additional risks faced by boxers of long term brain injuries, stemming from the use of gloves to protect the hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B7wd...elated&search=

What do others think ?

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by RSM123

Whether you watch it or not, whether you regard it as mindless brutality, or two consenting adults prepared to 'take their chances' .... I would like to know whether others here agree that this 'sport' should abolish the use of gloves, and revert to bare knuckle boxing ?

Bare knuckle boxing has, since the advent of the modren form, been stigmatised as something unprofessional, and therefore inferior to the current format of two gloved opponents going at each other within the bounds of the so called 'Queensbury Rules.'

One theory proposed in the last few years, supposedly after extended study, was that boxing gloves, while allowing the hand to withstand greater punishment, meant that as a consequence, the brain of the opponent sustained a far greater battering.

Muhammed Ali, with his 'shakes' is the highest profile figure to suffer a debilitating condition - though of course this can be attributed to Parkinson's Disease ... which can afflict anyone, even those who never have stepped inside a boxing ring.

I was looking up the bio of a well known UK based 'unlicensed boxer' ( ie could never fight for any of the recognised WBA / C / HBO / IBF titles) ... called Lenny McLean.

He was, on the unlicensed circuit, known as 'The Governor' for having had so many wins, though he was by no means undefeated. He was also the leader of a group of nightclub 'bouncers' here in London, and served time for manslaughter for killing a man in a brawl.

Here is a Youtube video in which he outlines the ( as he sees it) additional risks faced by boxers of long term brain injuries, stemming from the use of gloves to protect the hands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B7wd...elated&search=

What do others think ?

I think boxing in general is barbaric, but that is shocking news!

[SlackAli]

RSM you could have referenced Lenny McLean for those untutored in the noble art as the wonderful Barry the Baptist in Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.

I love boxing and did a bit in my youth. Given the state of heavyweight division at the moment they could take off the gloves, give them baseball bats and it would still be dull.

[Blackmirror]

Boxing should be banned .... but thats just my opinion .

[RSM123]

Bassetman / BlackMirror,

You're both correct of course in terms of the barbarity. I've never done it myself, and would not be sad if it were to be banned. I've heard all the arguments about there being more deaths in horse racing, power boat racing, etc .... yet as has been stated elsewhere, boxing is distinct from other sports in that it requires the deliberate infliction of punishment on an opponent in order to 'win.'

I've always harboured a contempt for those ringside, cheering on a beating while being unwilling to face such a prospect themselves.

Nevertheless, boxing is not likely to be banned, any more than the Grand National, despite the death toll among horses in it's 140 - 150 year history.

Just thought that the idea of forcing the proponents to confront each other bare knuckled was / is an interesting initiative - if it might help those who choose this path.

--------------

Slack Ali,

I was never a particular fan of McLean, though he was able to make something of his life, and having read up albeit briefly, he had a very hard early life ... according to Wiki, he was frequently beaten by his step father (jaw broken twice by age 10.) Shame he never met that man again in later life.

[Blackmirror]

You just have to look at the great MA to see the effects boxing has on the brain ....

you fall off a horse .. break your leg .. it mends

Boxing brain injuries last for life

I dont like seeing two men beating ten bells of **** out of each other to prove whose the strongest .. not in the modern world

Like i said its just my opinion

[PhoenixNEW]

Originally Posted by RSM123

Bassetman / BlackMirror,

You're both correct of course in terms of the barbarity. I've never done it myself, and would not be sad if it were to be banned. I've heard all the arguments about there being more deaths in horse racing, power boat racing, etc .... yet as has been stated elsewhere, boxing is distinct from other sports in that it requires the deliberate infliction of punishment on an opponent in order to 'win.'

I've always harboured a contempt for those ringside, cheering on a beating while being unwilling to face such a prospect themselves.

Nevertheless, boxing is not likely to be banned, any more than the Grand National, despite the death toll among horses in it's 140 - 150 year history.

Just thought that the idea of forcing the proponents to confront each other bare knuckled was / is an interesting initiative - if it might help those who choose this path.

--------------

Slack Ali,

I was never a particular fan of McLean, though he was able to make something of his life, and having read up albeit briefly, he had a very hard early life ... according to Wiki, he was frequently beaten by his step father (jaw broken twice by age 10.) Shame he never met that man again in later life.

Questions on boxing occur again and again, only when there is an injury. Whilst what has occurred to Mohammed Ali is tragic, he knew the full the risks involved in the sport but he like others are lured to boxing by large amounts of money. As in all areas of life, where there is a lot of money involved there is a large risk, be it in personal health, responsibility or financial health. Many value rewards over risks. It is their choice so let them make it. The only reason, I find people show contempt are because it is high profile, how often do we see pictures of injured or killed show jumpers or jockeys? Then again—how do you stop people from watching sports? To say that we are a civilized society not warranting this sport is ludicrous when the sports was invented for the so called civilized gentry in the days when family and social values were at their most strict.
Many of the arguments here are long dead, many others against it should be. All headgear protects against is cuts and bruises – to reduce effect on brain damage. As to the moral question--- the lawful actions of two consenting adults (where they are harming no-one else) should be of no concern to anyone. To compare two trained sportsmen fighting under a strict system of customs to some kind of street brawl is simply stupid. Comparing boxing to other sports is daft.

However, I feel that safeguards can be applied to boxing just like other sports--Life is often violent, and boxing is just part of it. Boxing cannot be banned; from my experience in Turkish ghetto, I had to fight for my life and my future if I didn’t, then I would be dead in the street. There are lots of people who complain as if they are moral guardians of people then why don’t stop the crimes in the society? Boxing is part of human primal instinct and it helps some to defend their life in horrible situations. Why don’t so called moral guardians prevent fights that have left some people senseless in the streets by unprovoked attacks of brutality and greed? If people don't like it then they don't have to watch it. Violence is human nature and humans love to fight and it part of survival of the fittest syndrome. If it banned or stopped, I feel it will go underground with severe consequences.

[Blackmirror]

Some very good points there Mehmet ...

[PhoenixNEW]

Originally Posted by Blackmirror

Some very good points there Mehmet ...

Seriously.. I feel let RSM, Bassetman and others stop war then we can stop boxing and others. Lot more damage comes from war and If you read my experience in the turkish ghettos, you will find that fights are parcels of every society.. No body could prevent gang wars, thuggery, theft and other disease plaguing the society then how can anyone stop this sport.

[SlackAli]

Originally Posted by Blackmirror

You just have to look at the great MA to see the effects boxing has on the brain ....

The problem with this statement, of course is that Ali would not have been 'great' without boxing.

[angelize56]

I agree about boxing being barbaric!!! I've never understood the brutality of boxing each other in the face and head...breaking bones...teeth...pummeling the brain enough to cause serious injury...in some cases death... Just seems crazy to me! It's sickening to watch...so I don't! As a nurse I envision the build up of brain damage through the years...why would one subject themselves to this sport...for the money only? Is it worth it to be like MA... And the crowds..they might as well be yelling out..KILL KILL KILL!

[Blackmirror]

Originally Posted by SlackAli

The problem with this statement, of course is that Ali would not have been 'great' without boxing.

Maybe he wouldnt be great but he would be able to hold a conversation

[SlackAli]

Originally Posted by Blackmirror

Maybe he wouldnt be great but he would be able to hold a conversation

That potentially applies to anybody who has ever participated in dangerous sports. Should we ban climbing, mountain biking, car racing etc etc.....? I'd bet Ali if asked would not swap his life for anything else.

Boxing is hardly a saturation-level cultural presence, so if you don't like it, you are really unlikely to come across it.

[Blackmirror]

Originally Posted by SlackAli

That potentially applies to anybody who has ever participated in dangerous sports. Should we ban climbing, mountain biking, car racing etc etc.....? I'd bet Ali if asked would not swap his life for anything else.

Boxing is hardly a saturation-level cultural presence, so if you don't like it, you are really unlikely to come across it.

Yes i can understand your points ... Contact sports are big business and i dont watch them on TV and at the end of the day they dont affect my life
Now wrestling .. back in the good old days of Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks .. thats a different kettle of fish lol pure entertainment on a saturday afternoon ...

[angelize56]

Originally Posted by Slack

Should we ban climbing, mountain biking, car racing etc etc.....?

Good morning Slack!

I say no comparison...those sports don't involve continual pounding on the head...