[izme]

shadow troops...western security men and Blackwater

Mods..sorry to post two threads so close together..I don't put up a ton of threads anyway

I've gathered lil snippet's from time to time about this..but am still naive about most of it; so sorry If I'm not perfectly accurate...this is a good place to clear all of that up

I really don't know all that much about this subject but am very curious to explore it. I have little opinion about the why's and what's, just want to talk about it in here

Merc's as far as I know make far more than the troops over there, it seems as though the price for being there and one's life is worth much more for Merc's.

This seems to be a bipartisan topic...I've seen different accusations and reports that the Dems wish to not talk about the shadow forces in Iraq. Thousand of Blackwater troops in Iraq where their deaths and actions in Iraq are a grey fog. Which allows our Government to carry out missions without any publicity and with anonymity for the most part. Some speculate that even if the primary troops withdrew the shadow forces would still be there. Anonymous warriors in this conflict payed for by American Citizens which many people know little about. Perhaps they are a necessity in Iraq...just seems a bit shadey/shadowy to me.

I'll be interested to learn more and see the opinions of others in here on the current Merc's working in Iraq as shadow forces. Two sides to every story as well? and Bush get's to get more troops in Iraq one way or the other.
I'm really not leaning towards a conspiracy theory or fault on any side of this fence..this seems much bigger than that

cut and paste #1

On Tuesday, five employees of the private security firm Blackwater USA were killed in a violent Baghdad neighborhood. Hours later, President Bush used his State of the Union address to call on what some are calling an undeclared surge of private mercenaries in Iraq. We speak with Jeremy Scahill, author of the forthcoming “Blackwater: The Rise of the World’s Most Powerful Mercenary Army.”

The private security firm Blackwater USA is back in the news again. On Tuesday, hours before President Bush’s State of the Union address, one of the company’s helicopters was brought down in a violent Baghdad neighborhood. Five Blackwater troops - all Americans - were killed. Reports say the men’s bodies show signs of execution-style deaths with bullet wounds to the back off the head.
Blackwater provided no identities or details of those killed. They did release a statement saying the deaths “are a reminder of the extraordinary circumstances under which our professionals voluntarily serve to bring freedom and democracy to the Iraqi people.”

President Bush made no mention of the incident during his State of the Union. But he did address the very issue that has brought dozens of private security companies like Blackwater to Iraq in the first place: the need for more troops.

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../01/26/1559232

cut and paste away gentlemen...I look forward to reading all of the debate on his subject...although I'll only be in from time to time for a little while


Great subject to talk about...I'm kind of tired of going over the whole right to bare arms issue anyway

[ekim68]

Thanks, fish, this needs to be addressed...Private armies are not what the constitution envisioned IMO...

[izme]

You're welcome Ekim...and I hope the bright minds that be in here can pick this apart and I can learn something

It's been bugging me for awhile now and it's does need to be addressed by all Americans

[izme]

And how this play's into the Constitution? I'll let you bright light bulbs tackle that one

[Fidelista]

I have posted to this subject before . I do not approve of private paramilitary mercenaries.
A very interesting article from sourcewatch . >f

Blackwater USA is the most comprehensive professional military, law enforcement, security, peacekeeping, and stability operations company in the world.

http://www.blackwaterusa.com/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blackwater USA
From SourceWatch
Blackwater USA is a private military contractor offering "tactical training," firing range and target systems, and security consulting under the company's subdivisions: Blackwater Training Center, Blackwater Target Systems, Blackwater Security Consulting and Blackwater Canine. According to its website, Blackwater provides "a spectrum of support to military, government agencies, law enforcement and civilian entities in training, targets and range operations as a solution provider." Their slogan is: "Providing a new generation of capability, skills, and people to solve the spectrum of needs in the world of security." [1]

Blackwater USA was co-founded by former Navy Seal Erik Prince, a "billionaire right-wing fundamentalist Christian from a powerful Michigan Republican family. A major Republican campaign contributor, he interned in the White House of President George H.W. Bush and campaigned for Pat Buchanan in 1992. He founded the mercenary firm Blackwater USA in 1997 with Gary Jackson, another former Navy SEAL." [2]

Prince's father, Edgar Prince, and Gary Bauer started the Family Research Council, where Prince interned. Prince's sister, Betsy DeVos, is a former chair of the Michigan Republican Party. [3]

Blackwater USA received no-bid contracts in Iraq, Afghanistan, and "post-Katrina New Orleans" from the current Bush administration. [4]

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...Blackwater_USA

[Wiskycoo]

....oooh very interesting read fella's... I'll keep me eye on this thread.

[pyritechips]

Forgive me if i missed something and I am about to post something already here.

I saw a documentry on this topic and as far as I understand, Blackwater, being a private company doing government contract work, are not bound by the rules of engagement or any other constraints imposed by the American military, which is answerable to the Commander in Chief (I am talking off the top of my head so if any American need correct me, I apologize in adcance for any inaccuracies in this post). I feel this gives the mercenaries a carte blanche and the administration the opportunity to wash their hands of any "wrong-doings".

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

Forgive me if i missed something and I am about to post something already here.

I saw a documentry on this topic and as far as I understand, Blackwater, being a private company doing government contract work, are not bound by the rules of engagement or any other constraints imposed by the American military, which is answerable to the Commander in Chief (I am talking off the top of my head so if any American need correct me, I apologize in adcance for any inaccuracies in this post). I feel this gives the mercenaries a carte blanche and the administration the opportunity to wash their hands of any "wrong-doings".

I would think a private company would be far more susceptible to lawsuits than the US military.

[pyritechips]

I would think a private company would be far more susceptible to lawsuits than the US military.

Do you think that if mercenaries break into an Iraqi house, murder the family and rape the daughter that there would be any kind of lawsuit? The boys in black would simply melt away into the background. They are answerable only to their employer and the employer doesn't care what happens as long as the job gets done.

[RSM123]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

Do you think that if mercenaries break into an Iraqi house, murder the family and rape the daughter that there would be any kind of lawsuit? The boys in black would simply melt away into the background. They are answerable only to their employer and the employer doesn't care what happens as long as the job gets done.

The 'men in black' are also answerable to their own consciences. Almost all are ex special forces personnel, and as such, highly trained professionals, keen to do a job for rather more than the derisory salaries they got when employed by the US Gov. They are also family men, not mindless automatons who've been unleashed on society.

You are presupposing that they are cut throat free - booters, who are there as latter day vikings, looking for nothing more than the opportunity to rape, rob, and murder.

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by RSM123

The 'men in black' are also answerable to their own consciences. Almost all are ex special forces personnel, and as such, highly trained professionals, keen to do a job for rather more than the derisory salaries they got when employed by the US Gov. They are also family men, not mindless automatons who've been unleashed on society.

You are presupposing that they are cut throat free - booters, who are there as latter day vikings, looking for nothing more than the opportunity to rape, rob, and murder.

A far better answer than the one I would have come up with. I was just going to say, "Yes".

[RSM123]

Originally Posted by BanditFlyer

A far better answer than the one I would have come up with. I was just going to say, "Yes".

Thanks.

So can we agree in the context of the Greatest Nation Thread running elsewhere ... that 'Limeys give better answers than Septics' ?

- That's Septics .. as in 'Septic Tanks' ( Yanks) - not sceptics.

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by RSM123

Thanks.

So can we agree in the context of the Greatest Nation Thread running elsewhere ... that 'Limeys give better answers than Septics' ?

- That's Septics .. as in 'Septic Tanks' ( Yanks) - not sceptics.

I'll give you this one but only because it's late at night and I'm too braindead to dispute.

[pyritechips]

they are cut throat free - booters, who are there as latter day vikings

Hey! I like Vikings! Kinda like Pyrites!

[RSM123]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

Hey! I like Vikings! Kinda like Pyrites!

The first meeting with the Norsemen
taken from The Norsemen and the Skraelings by Eigil Knuth,
Det Grønlandske Forlag, Godthåb

Painting by the 19th century Greenlandic artist Aron of Kangeq, illustrating Inuit historical accounts of meetings with the Norse.



Hmmm ... though I wonder whether those who found out just how green Greenland was, got a refund ?