[BanditFlyer]

Video games are bad, right?

TV makes people dumber?

Steven Johnson argues that the opposite is true. He wrote a book called Everything Bad Is Good For You, in which he argues that shows like 24 make people more intelligent rather than less intelligent, by giving people a more challenging plot to figure out than the Three's Company type shows of 20 years ago.

He also argues that kids would learn more if you would use games like Civilization in the classroom to re-enact historical events like The American Revolution.

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by BanditFlyer

Video games are bad, right?

TV makes people dumber?

Steven Johnson argues that the opposite is true. He wrote a book called Everything Bad Is Good For You, in which he argues that shows like 24 make people more intelligent rather than less intelligent, by giving people a more challenging plot to figure out than the Three's Company type shows of 20 years ago.

He also argues that kids would learn more if you would use games like Civilization in the classroom to re-enact historical events like The American Revolution.

Actually not a new concept. You have to be willing to spend the resources to get a video game that will hold the attention while teaching something. Same with TV shows which is more tied to the will of advertisers.

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by gbrumb

Actually not a new concept. You have to be willing to spend the resources to get a video game that will hold the attention while teaching something. Same with TV shows which is more tied to the will of advertisers.

Johnson tried to tie it into the Flynn effect somehow.

The way you put it, it makes more sense than how Johnson put it. The way he said it, computer operation is a form of mental excercise which forces us to solve similar problems to that faced in a IQ test.

I think it would make more sense if it happened from the other end - pushed by consumer. In other words, that people drift towards something they find (moderately) challenging.

[DiSaidSo]

Added it to my wishlist. Thanks, Bandit!

This is an interesting premise and I often find myself opposing those who constantly rail against video games, internet, & TV. People who are old curmudgeons and hate change will always complain about "kids these days with their gadgets and internets." Hey, things change. Kids read books, but they also play video games and play on the internet.

Gabi LOVES the internet... any time she has a question I don't know the answer to (which isn't very often, to be quite honest)... or I'm trying to explain what a platypus looks like... it's right there. The hyper-ventilating, over-reacting media is so focused on the negatives that I think a lot of people gloss over all of the positive things... which of course, are plentiful.

Gabi also thinks the library is the coolest thing ever. So you don't have to choose either the internet or the library. You can certainly love both.

[WarC]

Nice topic, Bandito!

I agree! I think some types of TV shows and videogames are very good at facilitating education.

I remember in elementary school when our teachers would let us spend a half hour each playing SimTown on the classroom Mac. It was a simplified version of Sim City, where the player was in charge of developing a town of "sims", and had to manage a budget while constructing houses, schools, power structures, etc...I always thought that those types of simulations and other logic-demanding games could help further learning...But that was my first and last encounter with a video game in the classroom.

Even typically violent games can offer up valuable lessons.

That is one reason why the US Army developed and released a game called "America's Army" for the PC a few years back - available for free download. It is a semi-realistic MOUT and urban warfare trainer. Obviously it doesn't compare to the real thing, but it teaches basic things like moving from cover to cover, the importance of supporting fire, and the need for teamwork to accomplish the objective. That game is the Army's bid to educate and draw us "Nintendo generations" of young adults and teenagers.

Other games, such as some types of strategy games like Civilization which Bandit mentioned, offer important if basic lessons in economics and money management, diplomacy, etc...

I think the difference there compared to traditional education is the key of interaction - actually getting your hands or head around something makes a very big difference compared to simply being lectured on it or given paper work as an assignment.

I actually pin a lot of my interest in history on TV and videogames...Channels like the History Channel, the Discovery Channel, TLC, etc...Have done a lot for me in getting me interested in the past. More than my experiences in the class room, thats for sure! In many cases watching something on or playing something about a certain subject area has led me to research the topic online, or purchase and check out books on the subject matter.

TV and video games have a big part to play in education if they are taken advantage of, and the material is there.

To the contrary of the Jack Thompson types who feel that videogames only feed twisted desires and negatively influence violent behavior.

[DiSaidSo]

Originally Posted by WarC

Nappy Headed

Haaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaaaaaaaa oh geez..... you're a trip....

[aconstas]

Although I agree that TV and computer games CAN be used for good purposes, they aren't. And even if you argue that they can be good for your intellect, they aren't good for your body. It's a shame that kids these days spend hours upon hours inside watching TV and playing video games. This is largely contributing to the Obesity epidemic that America is faced with today. Not only that, but the quality of TV shows are getting more and more demoralizing. I mean even commercials are getting crazy. It seems that no one can figure out why we have crazy shooters running through our schools and no one can figure out why so many sexual assaults against minors, yet we have COMMERCIALS on TV that start with warnings: this content may not be suitable for children and so forth. This type of garbage wasn't allowed 30 years ago, but today we're so desensitized that many of us hardly even notice it. And as far as video games go, the video game industries have pumped millions of dollars into psychological addiction research to get our kids addicted to their product so that they will buy the next update or the newest versions of the games. Parents don't realize that they're letting their kids play a game where they can pick up a local prostitue in a car, take her to a secluded alley, and bang her. It's because many of us adults are naive in to thinking that since its a product made for kids, it can't be that bad. Well, we're now reaping the fruits that we have sewed, and if we don't do something, it's just gonna get worse.

[WarC]

Originally Posted by DiSaidSo

Haaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaaaaaaaa oh geez..... you're a trip....

A trip with a bad hair day!

[poochee]

Originally Posted by aconstas

Although I agree that TV and computer games CAN be used for good purposes, they aren't. And even if you argue that they can be good for your intellect, they aren't good for your body. It's a shame that kids these days spend hours upon hours inside watching TV and playing video games. This is largely contributing to the Obesity epidemic that America is faced with today. Not only that, but the quality of TV shows are getting more and more demoralizing. I mean even commercials are getting crazy. It seems that no one can figure out why we have crazy shooters running through our schools and no one can figure out why so many sexual assaults against minors, yet we have COMMERCIALS on TV that start with warnings: this content may not be suitable for children and so forth. This type of garbage wasn't allowed 30 years ago, but today we're so desensitized that many of us hardly even notice it. And as far as video games go, the video game industries have pumped millions of dollars into psychological addiction research to get our kids addicted to their product so that they will buy the next update or the newest versions of the games. Parents don't realize that they're letting their kids play a game where they can pick up a local prostitue in a car, take her to a secluded alley, and bang her. It's because many of us adults are naive in to thinking that since its a product made for kids, it can't be that bad. Well, we're now reaping the fruits that we have sewed, and if we don't do something, it's just gonna get worse.

You got it right! It seems anything goes.

[Rockn]

Originally Posted by BanditFlyer

Video games are bad, right?

TV makes people dumber?

Steven Johnson argues that the opposite is true. He wrote a book called Everything Bad Is Good For You, in which he argues that shows like 24 make people more intelligent rather than less intelligent, by giving people a more challenging plot to figure out than the Three's Company type shows of 20 years ago.

He also argues that kids would learn more if you would use games like Civilization in the classroom to re-enact historical events like The American Revolution.

Well, people that watch 24 need a little IQ boost!! Maybe it's not such a bad show after all!

[WarC]

Originally Posted by aconstas

And as far as video games go, the video game industries have pumped millions of dollars into psychological addiction research to get our kids addicted to their product so that they will buy the next update or the newest versions of the games. Parents don't realize that they're letting their kids play a game where they can pick up a local prostitue in a car, take her to a secluded alley, and bang her. It's because many of us adults are naive in to thinking that since its a product made for kids, it can't be that bad. Well, we're now reaping the fruits that we have sewed, and if we don't do something, it's just gonna get worse.

One game...Out of the hundreds that have been developed since the 1970's?

Kinda makin' a big jump there aren't you?

I've actually seen studies that indicate that that particular game (Grand Theft Auto) was part of a -decline- in violence in suburban areas...Why? Some think its because kids in poor neighborhoods used it as an outlet instead of getting involved in gangs.



Kinda throws a wrench into it, huh?

[WarC]

Jack Thompson, a known anti-gaming advocate, recently blamed Cho's rampage at VT on the computer game Counter Strike...It was later revealed that not only did Cho not play the game at campus, there weren't even any videogames found in his dorm!

This is the same as the Marilyn Manson-caused-Columbine, Comicbooks-are-dangerous scapegoat crap...Anything to take the blame out of the hands of the parents and onto some other part of society!

It's always someone elses fault when a kid goes bad...It was never a parenting issue or lack of rolemodels. Always 'that movie', 'that comicbook', 'that music'...

[aconstas]

Originally Posted by WarC

One game...Out of the hundreds that have been developed since the 1970's?

Kinda makin' a big jump there aren't you?

One game? have you seen DMX and 50 Cent's games? there are more i can find them if you like... And who cares if there are 500 million duck hunts if everyone is buying GTA? Just because hundreds have been developed doesnt mean that those are the ones being bought or played the most.

Originally Posted by WarC

I've actually seen studies that indicate that that particular game (Grand Theft Auto) was part of a -decline- in violence in suburban areas...Why? Some think its because kids in poor neighborhoods used it as an outlet instead of getting involved in gangs.

Kinda throws a wrench into it, huh?

So it keeps them out of a gang while they are young, but doesn't stop them from growing up and walking into a NASA building and shooting someone.... I never said that the effect would be direct. I'm arguing the complete opposite. My arguement is that these games and television shows have a slow desensitizing effect that is general to the population which will make us reap the consequences later.

[SlackAli]

Originally Posted by WarC

Jack Thompson, a known anti-gaming advocate, recently blamed Cho's rampage at VT on the computer game Counter Strike...It was later revealed that not only did Cho not play the game at campus, there weren't even any videogames found in his dorm!

This is the same as the Marilyn Manson-caused-Columbine, Comicbooks-are-dangerous scapegoat crap...Anything to take the blame out of the hands of the parents and onto some other part of society!

It's always someone elses fault when a kid goes bad...It was never a parenting issue or lack of rolemodels. Always 'that movie', 'that comicbook', 'that music'...

I don't know who Jack Thompson is, but I agree with your critique of the simple minded view of a causal link between video/game violence and social action. I particularly like your view that it represents the sadly now prevalent abnegation of personal and parental responsibility when attempting to 'understand' and explain acts of real depravity.

BUT: I think that the widespread depiction of extreme violence - whether real or fantasy - has contributed to the de-sensitising of society to what is going on: a de-humanising of society which possibly affects people predisposed to violence.

I watched 'Hostel' last night, a movie with few redeeming features: mysoginistic, ridicuolus, and with extreme portrayals of debasement and torture.....having said that, after a bottle of organic Sicilian red, I quite enjoyed it.

[WarC]

Originally Posted by aconstas

One game? have you seen DMX and 50 Cent's games? there are more i can find them if you like... And who cares if there are 500 million duck hunts if everyone is buying GTA? Just because hundreds have been developed doesnt mean that those are the ones being bought or played the most.

The highest selling game of all time was Super Mario Bros with over 40 million sold.

The top three games sold for 2006 included two soccer games and a racing game (Need For Speed: Carbon). Although GTA Liberty City comes in at number four. (according to ChartTracks' All Prices Top Ten).

Originally Posted by aconstas

So it keeps them out of a gang while they are young, but doesn't stop them from growing up and walking into a NASA building and shooting someone.... I never said that the effect would be direct. I'm arguing the complete opposite. My arguement is that these games and television shows have a slow desensitizing effect that is general to the population which will make us reap the consequences later.

I think that might be a fair argument. It is the same desensitizing effect that gladiatorial games had on citizens of the Roman provinces...The same desensitizing effect that the UFC, Pride fighting, golden gloves competitions and boxing have on people today...I'd wager that a person unstable enough to commit such acts as Cho or the NASA shooter commited would probably have done them regardless of what video game, movie, or sport they saw. I think to some degree or another we've always been desensitized to violence in the western world.

I've been playing videogames since before I could even read the words on the screen...And I haven't yet had the desire to gun down my workplace or a schoolroom. But I do not consider myself to be special in that regard...I was just raised in a decent environment where I was taught right from wrong.