[plschwartz]

(after its first appearance in Plato's dialogue Euthyphro): "Is an action morally good because god commands it, or does god command it because it is morally good?"

I thought though busy I would raise the level of discussion here and came across this interesting question.

The second "horn" of the dilemma as it is called implies that morality stands apart from and perhaps above God.

The first implies that God can be capricious. That is maybe tomorrow he can declare that we all have a moral obligation to insult Mulder, or its OK to commit adultery etc.
There is more to this then meets the eye. And Our Fundie friends might consider which side their beliefs leaad them.

I started via a link to Wikipedia euthypro dilemma and there are several links to discussions therein.

Check in later to see if there are any bites

[pyritechips]

Ah, 'ethics'. You are a brave soul to discuss such a creature here!

You ask whether "Is an action morally good because god commands it, or does god command it because it is morally good?" That depends what sort of philosopher you are. A positivist would say that "an action is morally good because god commands it", while moralists would say that "god commands it because it is morally good"; that it is a definite action to be taken.

By the way, I dodn't care for Plato, especially The Republic. i am more of a Socrates fan, so to speak.

[Wino]

"Is an action morally good because god commands it, or does god command it because it is morally good?"

Non sequitur, as there is no god.

[pyritechips]

Non sequitur, as there is no god.

Well, I agree with you but for the sake of the above argument imagine instead of a "God" a sense of "Godness", the source of ethics.

[plschwartz]

Originally Posted by Wino

"Is an action morally good because god commands it, or does god command it because it is morally good?"

Non sequitur, as there is no god.

[plschwartz]

Originally Posted by Wino

"Is an action morally good because god commands it, or does god command it because it is morally good?"

Non sequitur, as there is no god.

Then who is conversing with Bush

Do you then believe in a totally random universe? Or do you believe in one with some structure but not moral?
Or maybe an organizing principle without the least interest in what happens to this pinhead in the Universe?

[linskyjack]

Why do humans have this need to explain everything they don't understand by invoking the deity?

[aconstas]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Why do humans have this need to explain everything they don't understand by invoking the deity?

Whatever you may not understand, a religious person may understand not by invoking deity but because deity is the source of all truth.

[aconstas]

Originally Posted by Wino

"Is an action morally good because god commands it, or does god command it because it is morally good?"

Non sequitur, as there is no god.

There are people who have seen God and there are many records written by those who have seen him. Are they all liars? Keep in mind that most of these people are religious and would think that lying is a sin....

and consider all those who have died and have been brought back... many of them have seen things and know that there is something after this life.

[linskyjack]

Oh yes, many kooks have seen God. Jim Jones saw God!

[aconstas]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Oh yes, many kooks have seen God. Jim Jones saw God!

Would it make a difference to you who said they saw God? I doubt it. Regardless of who it was, you would label them a kook just because you have no faith in God. If your own mother saw God and swore to you that she had, you'd just label her as a kook with the rest.

[linskyjack]

No it wouldn't because they are all full of it---or mentally unstable.

[pyritechips]

The last several posts are off topic; this thread is about morality, not the existance of God.

[linskyjack]

Indeed, the beauty of it is that the holy rollers don't think you can be moral unless you believe in God.

[aconstas]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

The last several posts are off topic; this thread is about morality, not the existance of God.

From my Christian view, God is the source of morality, not a product or enforcer of it.

Originally Posted by plschwartz

The first implies that God can be capricious. That is maybe tomorrow he can declare that we all have a moral obligation to insult Mulder, or its OK to commit adultery etc.

I cannot answer for anyone other than Christian, but the Bible says that God is the same today, yesterday, and forever. His laws don't change, mankind changes. Sometimes he commands us to live by certain commandments because of our own circumstances, not because he feels something is ok one day and not ok the next.