[oldie]

In order to possibly save lives ?

If so, how far does one go in order to achieve the intended aim ?

Was the Chief Constable of North Wales wrong in using shock tactics ? SEE HERE

And finally. How do such shock tactics affect young children ?

Oldie

[Blackmirror]

Young children are subjected to images on the TV everyday .
I would hope it was shown after the 9pm watershed ..
Shock tactics do work but he was wrong not to ask the families first

[poochee]

I believe they work, but should be properly used. He should have had permission from the families first. I think one image would have been sufficient. Not for young children, IMO.
But could impress teen-agers before they drive or ride a motorcycle.

[SlackAli]

Brunstrom is the guvnor for where I live. To say he's controversial is a big understatement.

I like him. Anybody who is demonised by that proto-fascist Jeremy Clarkson, and the self-proclaimed 'motoring lobby' - sociopathic berks who see any curtailment of their 'right' to drive at twice the speed limit as an infringement of their human rights - scores in my book.

[GlenB]

This particular case (the latest of Brunstrom's madness) is disgusting. A motorcyclist had his head decapitated in an accident, and travelled 50 yards down the road away from the body, apparently he (his head) would still have been conscious for these few seconds...

The motorcyclist was wearing a t-shirt that said traffic police should "p--s off and catch real criminals", or something similar. The video shows and focuses in on this man's t-shirt, almost implying 'serves you right'. I find this disgusting. Brunstrom did not get the deceased familiy's permission to 'use' him in this clip, either. The sooner this man is removed from his position, the better, thankfully some other Chief's of Police in the U.K. also share this feeling.

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by poochee

But could impress teen-agers before they drive or ride a motorcycle.

Doubtfull. Quite frankly, that's part of the appeal. I don't know if you noticed or not, but motorcyclists tend to have lots of skulls painted on their bikes and clothing. Every reminder of the ever-present danger is seen as a reputation-booster.

[oldie]

Although I reserved judgement on this one, I do feel that shock tactics tend to ram the message home. To work. My only concern is the affect it may have on a young child, and whether any research has been carried out to ascertain whether any lasting psychological damage is caused

Oldie

[clhcpa]

I remember being in a class where an officer came to speak --- he showed graphic slides of auto accidents. I can't say whether the presentation had the effect that was desired on the teens in the class --- but it's something I'll never forget.

[SlackAli]

Originally Posted by GlenB

This particular case (the latest of Brunstrom's madness) is disgusting. A motorcyclist had his head decapitated in an accident, and travelled 50 yards down the road away from the body, apparently he (his head) would still have been conscious for these few seconds...

The motorcyclist was wearing a t-shirt that said traffic police should "p--s off and catch real criminals", or something similar. The video shows and focuses in on this man's t-shirt, almost implying 'serves you right'. I find this disgusting. Brunstrom did not get the deceased familiy's permission to 'use' him in this clip, either. The sooner this man is removed from his position, the better, thankfully some other Chief's of Police in the U.K. also share this feeling.

GlenB, no offence but you're a plank.

[Paquadez]

Consider this:

"Consider the following facts. Between 12,000 and 24,000 people in Britain may die early due to air pollution, mostly due to the cocktail of poisons belched from millions of exhaust pipes every day (the figure for Europe is an estimated 80,000). Some 120,000 people die in road accidents every year across the continent; and our congested roads remain the biggest single cause of ‘accidental’ deaths and serious injury for children in Britain. The number of deaths in the UK rises every winter by comparison to the summer months by between 30,000 and 60,000. Proportionately, the number of excess winter deaths in Sweden is around a third that for the UK. The difference is largely a result of poorly insulated and poorly heated UK homes."

Now the last (2006) figures for UK road deaths were 3,200.

Yes, all violent and unecessary death and injury is shocking.

However, death and injury on the UK's roads is still falling: and far less than most other EU states.

Perhaps this copper, like so many of his ilk, might achieve far more by focusing on supporting initiatives to improve driver skills and training: and canvas Government to totally change driving laws and the crazy test!

If one extracts and segments stats since the 1930s (when most of Britain's roads were built - and they are still, in the majority used today!), taking into account the total number of vehicles; the total number of drivers; and most important, the total vehile miles annually, road deaths adn injuries have plummeted since 1930!

Focus on the risk groups: motor cyclists (no surprise when one sees how so many ride on the roads!) and kids walking and playing with no parental supervision alongside urban roads and it soon becomes super-apparent that the motorways - the target of mobile traffic cops, speed cameras and etc! - are the least important problem.

So I am forced to conclude this guy's "Shocking" campaign is intended to make him shockingly famous, rather than achieve anything else.

Paq

[GlenB]

Originally Posted by SlackAli

GlenB, no offence but you're a plank.

No offence taken, especially when it's from a person whose best response is a personal jibe akin to that of a young child.

[GlenB]

Originally Posted by Paquadez

Consider this:

"Consider the following facts. Between 12,000 and 24,000 people in Britain may die early due to air pollution, mostly due to the cocktail of poisons belched from millions of exhaust pipes every day (the figure for Europe is an estimated 80,000). Some 120,000 people die in road accidents every year across the continent; and our congested roads remain the biggest single cause of ‘accidental’ deaths and serious injury for children in Britain. The number of deaths in the UK rises every winter by comparison to the summer months by between 30,000 and 60,000. Proportionately, the number of excess winter deaths in Sweden is around a third that for the UK. The difference is largely a result of poorly insulated and poorly heated UK homes."

Now the last (2006) figures for UK road deaths were 3,200.

Yes, all violent and unecessary death and injury is shocking.

However, death and injury on the UK's roads is still falling: and far less than most other EU states.

Perhaps this copper, like so many of his ilk, might achieve far more by focusing on supporting initiatives to improve driver skills and training: and canvas Government to totally change driving laws and the crazy test!

If one extracts and segments stats since the 1930s (when most of Britain's roads were built - and they are still, in the majority used today!), taking into account the total number of vehicles; the total number of drivers; and most important, the total vehile miles annually, road deaths adn injuries have plummeted since 1930!

Focus on the risk groups: motor cyclists (no surprise when one sees how so many ride on the roads!) and kids walking and playing with no parental supervision alongside urban roads and it soon becomes super-apparent that the motorways - the target of mobile traffic cops, speed cameras and etc! - are the least important problem.

So I am forced to conclude this guy's "Shocking" campaign is intended to make him shockingly famous, rather than achieve anything else.

Paq

Good post

[RSM123]

Originally Posted by SlackAli

Brunstrom is the guvnor for where I live. To say he's controversial is a big understatement.

I like him. Anybody who is demonised by that proto-fascist Jeremy Clarkson, and the self-proclaimed 'motoring lobby' - sociopathic berks who see any curtailment of their 'right' to drive at twice the speed limit as an infringement of their human rights - scores in my book.

SA,

Not being a driver, I have no vested interest in issues like increasing the speed limit, trackers in cars, and the like.

However, it was reported here today, that hospitals will now start to refuse to treat obese people, and smokers. Well in that case ... why not drinkers ... and specifically drink drivers - or for that matter people who cadge a lift home wth somebody they know is sloshed ?

If you live in McDs you know the consequences. If you smoke 40 B&H a day - you know the risks. Likewise if you drink a bottle of Jack D, or Smirnoff a day - you should know the risks. Indeed if you jump in a car with someone you've just spent 6 hours boozing with and have a crash .... ???

It seems to boil down to certain parameters on what is sociallly acceptable - drinking yes ... smoking / speeding - nope.

Do you recall Hazel Blears responding to the issue of binge drinking still being a problem even after the extension of the licensing laws ?

She stated that 'Rationing alcohol is something we will have to look at.'

Oh, please

I have no personal opinion on Brunstrom, as I don't have any dealings with him or his force.

However if we are going to implement a moral code on acceptable behaviour - then it needs to apply not merely to the 'usual suspects' of fat foods and fags ( apologies to Americans who are not familiar with the OTHER meaning of that word) .... but to alcohol consumption.

Furthermore, alcohol abuse has other wider effects - people being unfit for work, spousal abuse, etc.

If as the EU wants, we have pictures of cancerous tumours on cig. packets ... then why not pics of cirrhotic livers on beer cans, wine / spirit bottles ?

It would be more effective than the present 'drink sensibly' message, printed discretely somewhere on the bottle / can.

======

As regards GlenB's point about the unauthorised photo of the dead biker - again I'm not opposed. However when you consider the recent spate of 'Black on black murders' here in London ... what do you think the reaction would have been, had the Met Police published a photo of one of the dead, replete with stab / gunshot wounds - as part of a campaign to turn children away from joining street gangs ? Such a tactic would have been condemned by the do gooders as exploitative, excessive, and, probably racist.

[Blackmirror]

My friend is in a wheelchair due to a motorbike accident ..
head on collision with a car he was lucky to survive ..
He lost his leg as well and is paraylsed from the waist down ...

Now if he had been shown a video like that would it have made him stop and think before he overtook on a bend ??? who knows ..

but if it saves just one life is it not worth it

[RSM123]

Originally Posted by Blackmirror

My friend is in a wheelchair due to a motorbike accident ..
head on collision with a car he was lucky to survive ..
He lost his leg as well and is paraylsed from the waist down ...

Now if he had been shown a video like that would it have made him stop and think before he overtook on a bend ??? who knows ..

but if it saves just one life is it not worth it

But again, there is a question of where to 'draw the line' .... there are inherent risks in many things. At the moment smoking, and poor diets are the current bete noires to be targeted by the 'health watchdogs' - yet any form of dangerous sports COULD lead to death or disability. There are only more deaths on the roads, than from sky diving, because there far more drivers than there are parachutists.

Likewise the old chesnut about 'flying being safer than driving' ... when there are as many planes airborne as there are cars on the roads, that statistic may need reappraising.