[lotuseclat79]

Article here.

Oil hit a new high today, $89 a barrel. Some analysts predict it will soon hit $100. All this has caused much anxiety in the markets and handwringing in the press, which has generally attributed the increase to 1) unrest in the Middle East 2) increased demand, particularly from China and India and 3) speculators.

Last night the price of oil peaked over $90/barrel.

-- Tom

[Striker840]

Its getting freaking ridiculousl thats for damn sure. There is no reason at all for the price to be so high. Problem is what can we do about it??

[Wino]

It's George W. Bush at his shiniest .............You can thank George W. Bush for the situation. He owns it lock, stock and barrel.............and we have 14.3 months to go before the smirking money vacates the White House...............it's of this nightmares are made.

[sy2]

Originally Posted by Wino

It's George W. Bush at his shiniest .............You can thank George W. Bush for the situation. He owns it lock, stock and barrel.............and we have 14.3 months to go before the smirking money vacates the White House...............it's of this nightmares are made.

Well that's a bit short-sighted...

No matter who's in office in '08, oil will still be expensive as hell. It has more to do with increased global demand, IMO, particularly from China and India. There are millions of people who never had a use for oil-based energy that are clamoring for it now. As demand increases and supply decreases, guess what happens? That's right - price hits the roof.

What's scary is the idea that legislators want to cap selling prices in the US or cap profits in the US.

Imagine that you're selling a commodity - any one, it doesn't have to be gas. Country 'A' tells you that you can only sell your goods for $15/unit. Meanwhile, there's plenty of demand in Country 'B' and 'C' to cover your inventory and they're willing to pay well over $15/unit for the same good. Who would you sell to?

What people seem to forget is that any of these oil companies can simply take their ball and go home. Push hard enough and you reach a tipping point where selling in the US just isn't worth it when you've got plenty of other people willing to pay a heckuva lot more. The funny thing is that we pay next to nothing in the US compared to most European countries. Talk to someone from Spain or Germany - they'll just laugh at you if they hear you complaining about gasoline/petrol prices.

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by sy2

Well that's a bit short-sighted...

No matter who's in office in '08, oil will still be expensive as hell. It has more to do with increased global demand, IMO, particularly from China and India. There are millions of people who never had a use for oil-based energy that are clamoring for it now. As demand increases and supply decreases, guess what happens? That's right - price hits the roof.

What's scary is the idea that legislators want to cap selling prices in the US or cap profits in the US.

Imagine that you're selling a commodity - any one, it doesn't have to be gas. Country 'A' tells you that you can only sell your goods for $15/unit. Meanwhile, there's plenty of demand in Country 'B' and 'C' to cover your inventory and they're willing to pay well over $15/unit for the same good. Who would you sell to?

What people seem to forget is that any of these oil companies can simply take their ball and go home. Push hard enough and you reach a tipping point where selling in the US just isn't worth it when you've got plenty of other people willing to pay a heckuva lot more. The funny thing is that we pay next to nothing in the US compared to most European countries. Talk to someone from Spain or Germany - they'll just laugh at you if they hear you complaining about gasoline/petrol prices.

Shhhh.....the truth has no place where hatred of the opposing fraternity is concerned

[Wino]

Originally Posted by sy2

Well that's a bit short-sighted...

No matter who's in office in '08, oil will still be expensive as hell. It has more to do with increased global demand, IMO, particularly from China and India. There are millions of people who never had a use for oil-based energy that are clamoring for it now. As demand increases and supply decreases, guess what happens? That's right - price hits the roof.

What's scary is the idea that legislators want to cap selling prices in the US or cap profits in the US.

Imagine that you're selling a commodity - any one, it doesn't have to be gas. Country 'A' tells you that you can only sell your goods for $15/unit. Meanwhile, there's plenty of demand in Country 'B' and 'C' to cover your inventory and they're willing to pay well over $15/unit for the same good. Who would you sell to?

What people seem to forget is that any of these oil companies can simply take their ball and go home. Push hard enough and you reach a tipping point where selling in the US just isn't worth it when you've got plenty of other people willing to pay a heckuva lot more. The funny thing is that we pay next to nothing in the US compared to most European countries. Talk to someone from Spain or Germany - they'll just laugh at you if they hear you complaining about gasoline/petrol prices.

It may be short sighted, but accurate.

There is no worldwide shortage of crude oil, even with higher demand. We have no shortages in the US and have sufficient refineries for our current needs (in spite of what we are told). The instability in the mideast, the falling dollar and massive deficits are due to the policies and fiscal irresponsibility of the Bush administration. You can dispute my comment, but you can't deny it's correctness.

As to Spain or Germany or Canada or England or Australia........their gas prices are sky high due to taxes (England over 60%). Take out their taxes, remove our taxes and we pay basically the same price.

May be it's time to tell big oil to take their ball and go home...........which I doubt they would do. May be it would finally get our government and citizens off their deadass on alternate fuels. We've already frittered away the 30+ years since Carter's attempt to wean us from Arab oil.

[Wino]

Originally Posted by Ciberblade

Shhhh.....the truth has no place where hatred of the opposing fraternity is concerned

You can't handle the truth!

[Gibble]

Originally Posted by sy2

Well that's a bit short-sighted...

No matter who's in office in '08, oil will still be expensive as hell. It has more to do with increased global demand, IMO, particularly from China and India. There are millions of people who never had a use for oil-based energy that are clamoring for it now. As demand increases and supply decreases, guess what happens? That's right - price hits the roof.

What's scary is the idea that legislators want to cap selling prices in the US or cap profits in the US.

Imagine that you're selling a commodity - any one, it doesn't have to be gas. Country 'A' tells you that you can only sell your goods for $15/unit. Meanwhile, there's plenty of demand in Country 'B' and 'C' to cover your inventory and they're willing to pay well over $15/unit for the same good. Who would you sell to?

What people seem to forget is that any of these oil companies can simply take their ball and go home. Push hard enough and you reach a tipping point where selling in the US just isn't worth it when you've got plenty of other people willing to pay a heckuva lot more. The funny thing is that we pay next to nothing in the US compared to most European countries. Talk to someone from Spain or Germany - they'll just laugh at you if they hear you complaining about gasoline/petrol prices.

*ahem*

I'll laugh at you too Granted, I'm not paying Euro prices, but I sure as heck ain't paying the cheap prices you all get in the US!

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by Wino

It may be short sighted, but accurate.

There is no worldwide shortage of crude oil, even with higher demand. We have no shortages in the US and have sufficient refineries for our current needs (in spite of what we are told). The instability in the mideast, the falling dollar and massive deficits are due to the policies and fiscal irresponsibility of the Bush administration. You can dispute my comment, but you can't deny it's correctness.

As to Spain or Germany or Canada or England or Australia........their gas prices are sky high due to taxes (England over 60%). Take out their taxes, remove our taxes and we pay basically the same price.

May be it's time to tell big oil to take their ball and go home...........which I doubt they would do. May be it would finally get our government and citizens off their deadass on alternate fuels. We've already frittered away the 30+ years since Carter's attempt to wean us from Arab oil.

The demand in the U.S. has increased steadily since about 1991 with a slight decline in 2001, then the increase returned to the same rate of growth it had already been at. Worldwide, oil demand has been increasing since about 1982 and over the last five years, at a more rapid rate. In fact, in 2004...China's growth caused it to become the second largest consumer of oil -- a growth trend that is expected to continue at a rapid rate based upon their population and industrial figures.

As for our refining capacity....it's been no secret that we have been producing at capacity for many, many years. Part of the reason for that is the separate state by state regulations that I've talked about before. Add to that the back to back gulf hurricanes of 2005 (Katrina & Rita) that damaged several of our off-shore platforms.

Originally Posted by Wino

You can't handle the truth!

Yeah...seems like I can't.

[sy2]

Originally Posted by Wino

There is no worldwide shortage of crude oil, even with higher demand. We have no shortages in the US and have sufficient refineries for our current needs (in spite of what we are told). The instability in the mideast, the falling dollar and massive deficits are due to the policies and fiscal irresponsibility of the Bush administration. You can dispute my comment, but you can't deny it's correctness.

Well I think that quite a few politicians and environmentalists would disagree with you about oil supply and refining capabilities, but that's really beside the point. Even if I were to grant that supplies were steady - which they can't be with any finite resource, by definition - you're still dealing with an incredible increase in demand, which will make prices soar. Does the mideast and the falling dollar play a role? Sure, but not nearly to the degree that millions of more consumers do.

As to Spain or Germany or Canada or England or Australia........their gas prices are sky high due to taxes (England over 60%). Take out their taxes, remove our taxes and we pay basically the same price.

That's true, but that's also an entirely new conversation. Although we may be on our way to similar taxation in the states - there's a furor in Illinois right now because of new tax proposals and our state governments refusal to cut back on any programs.

May be it's time to tell big oil to take their ball and go home...........which I doubt they would do.

Well that would seriously screw things up over here... actually I can't believe you're even serious about that statement. It must have been tongue-in-cheek.

There is most definitely a market for oil other than inside the US. Would leaving completely be the smart thing to do? Probably not, at least not yet. But start legislating oil company profits and fixing the prices that they're allowed to sell their goods at and they will leave in droves.

How do you feel about outsourcing, by the way? An exodus of oil companies from the US would cost a lot of jobs - I'm surprised that would be something you're in favor of.

May be it would finally get our government and citizens off their deadass on alternate fuels. We've already frittered away the 30+ years since Carter's attempt to wean us from Arab oil.

I don't think anyone disagrees that we need alternate energy, but I wouldn't get your hopes up that it will be much different from oil on the political side of things. People will still be getting rich off of whatever technology is developed, and people will still need to pay for their energy. The only question now is how much, and as these oil prices rise there's more and more motivation and justification to look elsewhere.

Edited for grammar.

[WarC]

Originally Posted by Wino

May be it's time to tell big oil to take their ball and go home...........which I doubt they would do. May be it would finally get our government and citizens off their deadass on alternate fuels. We've already frittered away the 30+ years since Carter's attempt to wean us from Arab oil.

Such is the glory of capitalism Wino. No one holds a gun to our head and says "Buy my oil!", we make that decision ourselves when we pull into the gas station or head to the hardware store for motor oil or tranny fluid.

Funny how we blame the middle man for our own demands. I never get angry at the UPS guy delivering my packages. Why should I blame Exxon-Mobil for the oil I buy?

[Wino]

Originally Posted by WarC

Such is the glory of capitalism Wino. No one holds a gun to our head and says "Buy my oil!", we make that decision ourselves when we pull into the gas station or head to the hardware store for motor oil or tranny fluid.

Funny how we blame the middle man for our own demands. I never get angry at the UPS guy delivering my packages. Why should I blame Exxon-Mobil for the oil I buy?

I'm not blaming the middle man..............I'm blaming George W. Bush as the major problem. I can afford the gas prices, the extra cost of goods, meat and produce............don't enjoy the added cost any more than you like taxes, but hey, that's life.

[rob.rice]

we (the U.S.A) could stop importing oil in 5 years and stop burning oil in 15 years
here is a painless plan http://www.oilendgame.com/
here is how bush figures into the high oil prices
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...01869971500776
if the link dosn't work google for bush family fortunes

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by Wino

I'm not blaming the middle man..............I'm blaming George W. Bush as the major problem.

How?

Originally Posted by rob.rice

we (the U.S.A) could stop importing oil in 5 years
here is a painless plan http://www.oilendgame.com/
here is how bush figures into the high oil prices
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...01869971500776

Thanks for the links. Could you summarize the video for me(slow internet connection)?

[Sins]

Let's think about GWB and his policies for a second. Perhaps instead of resisting the radical Muslims we ignore them. Forget about them blowing us up and sinking ships etcetera let's just consider for a moment the potential results of radical Islam in charge the world's largest proven oil reserves. They already have a thousand years of "Kill the Infidel - go to Heaven" philosophy pounded into them by the pedophile Mohammad. Let's give them the keys to our energy supply!! Then when you can't get gas until your allotment comes up in 2 weeks you can blame it all on Abdul in stead of George. Doesn't seem to help much does it?

The only viable solution is to develope an alternative and the only virtually unlimited resource on this planet is water, sea water. The effective and mobile conversion of water to it's respective parts. hydrogen and oxygen will become the future cash cow for most of the world. Hydrogen technology hopefully will not require storage of large quantities of liquid hydrogen but instead will require you to add a gallon of water to the tank and take off on your next trip!