[silentmage]

I know this can be a touchy subject for a lot of people but i'm just wonder what other people views on it are. me personally, i am not sure how to classify myself. i do believe in god and the devil, if you sin you go to hell. i cant find a denomination that would fit what i believe. you are supposed to follow the 10 commandments, but god knows we are human, and to some of these places if a woman get her hair cut she is instantly sentenced to hell, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. what is your opinion TSG?

[poochee]

Originally Posted by silentmage

I know this can be a touchy subject for a lot of people but i'm just wonder what other people views on it are. me personally, i am not sure how to classify myself. i do believe in god and the devil, if you sin you go to hell. i cant find a denomination that would fit what i believe. you are supposed to follow the 10 commandments, but god knows we are human, and to some of these places if a woman get her hair cut she is instantly sentenced to hell, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. what is your opinion TSG?

I don't know what you mean by "can't find a denomination that fits with what you believe". The things you mention are believed by Christians. The fact you mention about cutting hair smacks of a cult.

Briefly: Just for starters, shop around for a church, try Baptist. Baptist Ministers teach directly from the Bible. Join a Bible study group. Talk to the Minister about your feelings. He will give you guidance. Just start going to church. If you don't like one church, find another one. Just remember, a church is made up of people. None of us is perfect, we are works in progress.

[sglv]

Originally Posted by poochee

I don't know what you mean by "can't find a denomination that fits with what you believe". The things you mention are believed by Christians. The fact you mention about cutting hair smacks of a cult.

Briefly: Just for starters, shop around for a church, try Baptist. Baptist Ministers teach directly from the Bible. Join a Bible study group. Talk to the Minister about your feelings. He will give you guidance. Just start going to church. If you don't like one church, find another one. Just remember, a church is made up of people. None of us is perfect, we are works in progress.

Agreed. Except about the Baptist part. They're the one's who kicked me out and told me never come back when I was 13 (I know - ages ago - I should get over it). That's not to say Baptists are that way anymore. I have to admit Poochie, your church (and you) sound nothing like the church I belonged to. Definitely go to more than one church. When you find the church that says "you're a hypocrite, me too - welcome, come learn the words of God and decide for yourself from you're own research of the Bible what it means to believe in God."

You apparently do not like the "fire and brimstone" type of church (which focuses on the Old Testament, fear, etc. - and the church I attended as a kid) and will probably feel more comfortable with a church that is more inclined to teach the New Testament and teaches you that yes, we all sin, but it's how we handle our sins that make the difference. The members definitely make a huge difference, but don't judge a church based on one member. Meet several.

[silentmage]

i am currently going to a Nazarene church, which is pentecostal without the fire, brimstone, and speaking i tongues. i like it there but they have so many rules (can't listen to music with curses, cant watch moves rated over pg-13, ect..). i guess i want a church that will let me believe without having to bind myself down with a million and a half reasons not to enjoy life.

[sglv]

Originally Posted by silentmage

i am currently going to a Nazarene church, which is pentecostal without the fire, brimstone, and speaking i tongues. i like it there but they have so many rules (can't listen to music with curses, cant watch moves rated over pg-13, ect..). i guess i want a church that will let me believe without having to bind myself down with a million and a half reasons not to enjoy life.

That is where prayer and forgiveness come into play.

Many would disagree with me, probably millions. But the fact of the matter is, the more you learn, the more you start thinking. Is a movie rated above PG-13 a good thing - who knows? Is it something you really enjoy and want to watch? You have to decide that. Religion is there to "protect" you - or is it "shield" you. Not sure. I loved horror movies when I was a teenager, absolutely loved them. Now, I won't watch them. Not interested. They serve no purpose in my life. But I do not forbid my 15 year old daughter, along with husband, from watching them. No. They have to make their own decisions. Do I judge them for it. No. Does it stop me from reading Steven King? No. Do my kids curse - sadly, yes. These are all choices they choose to make. Not my job to judge them for bad choices. Will I shut my door on them, no. Will I pray for them, yes - as much as I pray for myself. Because I am not perfect.

Truthfully, I believe 110% that there is a God and there is a Satan. Sometimes, I make really bad choices. I also believe there is only one God and one Satan to judge me on those choices. People are human, they err. People are not the final decision. It is not my job to play God. IMHO.

[silentmage]

whatever happened to just believing in god, satan, heaven, and hell.? if you do bad things your goin to hell, good things heaven. somewhere along the line i think someone messed up and put rules in there. i guess i'm just being stubborn about all of this.

[WarC]

My only solid opinion on divinity is that we couldn't know with a certainty one way or the other. I neither disavow the idea of a God nor can readily accept that there is one.

I neither suspect that any earthly religion is "right", nor that science can ever possibly come to a conclusion to the contrary.

It is what it is.

I think the core beliefs of ANY religion as they relate to compassoin or community with one another...Empathy as it were, the projection of our own wants and needs onto others and the respect and compassion for another in recognition that THEY have wants and needs...Is a good thing, and a value to society. Something which we can draw and learn from most religions.

[poochee]

Originally Posted by silentmage

whatever happened to just believing in god, satan, heaven, and hell.? if you do bad things your goin to hell, good things heaven. somewhere along the line i think someone messed up and put rules in there. i guess i'm just being stubborn about all of this.

Shop around for a church and take some Bible study classes. Good luck!

[silentmage]

Originally Posted by WarC

My only solid opinion on divinity is that we couldn't know with a certainty one way or the other. I neither disavow the idea of a God nor can readily accept that there is one.

I neither suspect that any earthly religion is "right", nor that science can ever possibly come to a conclusion to the contrary.

It is what it is.

I think the core beliefs of ANY religion as they relate to compassoin or community with one another...Empathy as it were, the projection of our own wants and needs onto others and the respect and compassion for another in recognition that THEY have wants and needs...Is a good thing, and a value to society. Something which we can draw and learn from most religions.

i think that pretty much sums it all up right there. its like they are all right, but wrong at the same time, like they need to strip at down back to the basics instead of doing a "mine is bigger than yours" competition.

[sy2]

Originally Posted by WarC

My only solid opinion on divinity is that we couldn't know with a certainty one way or the other. I neither disavow the idea of a God nor can readily accept that there is one.

I neither suspect that any earthly religion is "right", nor that science can ever possibly come to a conclusion to the contrary.

It is what it is.

I think the core beliefs of ANY religion as they relate to compassoin or community with one another...Empathy as it were, the projection of our own wants and needs onto others and the respect and compassion for another in recognition that THEY have wants and needs...Is a good thing, and a value to society. Something which we can draw and learn from most religions.

I agree with what you write, with one point of clarification.

Though no one can say definitively if a divine being exists, that does not preclude us from making intelligent estimations of the probability of that existence.

The fact that science cannot say that a divine god does not exist 100% does not mean that its existence or non-existence is a 50/50 probability.

Personally, I think it is extraordinarily unlikely that an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent "creator" exists, though I can't prove it. Similarly, I think that it's extraordinarily unlikely that a flying pixie whisks from house to house collecting children's teeth and leaving dollar bills in their place, but I can't prove it. The difference is that at some point your parents filled you in on the fact that the stories you were told about the Tooth Fairy as a child were patently untrue.

The only "god" that I could see existing is along the lines of the deist's god - one that snapped everything into existence and then retreated to wherever he/she/it spent his/her/its time before that creation event, never to be seen or heard from again. But even that god is unlikely, because where did it come from. It's existence just pushes the regression further back in time and makes it that much more complicated.

Where it starts getting really improbable, for me, is when you start postulating that this "creator" reads all of our minds simultaneously, spies on us wherever we are, and is ultimately so insecure that his/her/its only demand is that we worship him/her/it exclusively and constantly.

If you just look at the sheer number of religions, gods, and ideologies that have existed over time and throughout the world, and how certain each of the adherents were that their god was the true god, then it all starts becoming very clear, IMO, that religions are a function of society and serve as methods to explain the unexplainable and to cope with the anxiety that comes with being conscious of our own mortality. Useful? Certainly, no argument from me there.

[poochee]

Originally Posted by WarC

My only solid opinion on divinity is that we couldn't know with a certainty one way or the other. I neither disavow the idea of a God nor can readily accept that there is one.

Just have one thing to say...there are a whole lot of "we's" that are certain!

That's all folks! Been there, done that one!

[sy2]

Originally Posted by poochee

Just have one thing to say...there are a whole lot of "we's" that are certain!

There always have been - the only thing that changes is exactly what the "we's" are certain of.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by sy2

" religions are a function of society and serve as methods to explain the unexplainable and to cope with the anxiety that comes with being conscious of our own mortality". .

Pretty much says it all in one sentence !.
I think religions have been used for other purposes , but the reason they are believed
is exactly what you have said.
Maybe in the beginning fear was the motivator , but then your comment "explain the unexplainable" -- is close enough ! >f

[valley]

Originally Posted by sy2

Where it starts getting really improbable, for me, is when you start postulating that this "creator" reads all of our minds simultaneously, spies on us wherever we are, and is ultimately so insecure that his/her/its only demand is that we worship him/her/it exclusively and constantly.

Are you saying that Jesus Christ was insecure?

[poochee]

Valley, I like your avatar. My Mothers favorite quote.