[linskyjack]

Wingers like to tell us that socialized medicine is not the way to go. They say that the US has the best health care system in the world!

Not so fast (read the hole article and check out France!)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080108/...hs_rankings_dc

[Chicon]

'France best !'
During the heatwave of Summer 2003, nearly 8000 people died because a lot of medics and nurses were on holidays.

[Ciberblade]

Nolte said the large number of Americans who lack any type of health insurance -- about 47 million people in a country of about 300 million, according to U.S. government estimates -- probably was a key factor in the poor showing of the United States compared to other industrialized nations in the study.

So really, it's not determining so much the quality of coverage...rather number of covered. Wouldn't the research be better served by like values of coverage? Which speaks more to LESS government involvement rather than more. But then, you didn't pay any attention the last time we discussed this.

The perception that gives this 'universal healthcare' fuel is that it would be 'free'. The simple truth is that it's not free. We, as a country, could not afford it.

[linskyjack]

No says that universal health care would be free---Many Americans are willing to pay more in order to assure that their fellow citizens have health care. The point of this article is that we are doing very poorly in some of the key measures of health care.

[Ciberblade]

Please try and read what I write...and not alter it to say something I'm not. And are you willing to have upwards of a 75% taxation rate? Besides, as I've told you and shown you before. It is not the most effective way to deal with the problem. The con's by far outweigh the pro's.

[linskyjack]

OH please, stop making up numbers or acquiring them from some right wing economists. You as usual, have shown me absolutely nothing. Its amazing that the most powerful economic power in the world fails so miserably when it comes to taking care of its own people. The right wing answer---everything is fine.

[Littlefield]

Obama and Hillary are not really wanting Universal healthcare they are wanting a universal insurance plan.
Read what Paul Krugman says about Obama's plan .He ain't a conservative !


''Over the last few days Mr. Obama and Mr. Edwards have been conducting a long-range argument over health care that gets right to this issue. And I have to say that Mr. Obama comes off looking, well, naïve.''



''O.K., more seriously, it's actually Mr. Obama who's being unrealistic here, believing that the insurance and drug industries - which are, in large part, the cause of our health care problems - will be willing to play a constructive role in health reform. The fact is that there's no way to reduce the gross wastefulness of our health system without also reducing the profits of the industries that generate the waste.
As a result, drug and insurance companies - backed by the conservative movement as a whole - will be implacably opposed to any significant reforms. And what would Mr. Obama do then? "I'll get on television and say Harry and Louise are lying," he says. I'm sure the lobbyists are terrified.

As health care goes, so goes the rest of the progressive agenda. Anyone who thinks that the next president can achieve real change without bitter confrontation is living in a fantasy world.

Which brings me to a big worry about Mr. Obama: in an important sense, he has in effect become the anti-change candidate.''


http://www.alternet.org/election08/7...269&pID=791889

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

OH please, stop making up numbers or acquiring them from some right wing economists. You as usual, have shown me absolutely nothing. Its amazing that the most powerful economic power in the world fails so miserably when it comes to taking care of its own people. The right wing answer---everything is fine.

I noticed you didn't answer the question as usual. EVERY plan for such health care coverage includes a massive increase in taxes to fund it....why? Glad you asked. Since only approx half the country works, the increase in yearly budget would have to be enough to support everyone. Lets take a recent example -- John Edwards plan calls for a yearly increase of $120 Billion dollars. Spread that out across 150 million people according to our tax structures and what do you get? Substantial increases. I could show you the math...only, if prior discussions with you of this nature can give an idea of what's to come -- I don't want to waste my time.

Yeah, and I'm using far right-winged sources such as the Associated Press and Bill's from the National Records Archive...you know, you only make yourself look foolish when you try and call me out like this. I'm happy to pursue the conversation...I'm just saying.

[Chicon]

I've found out a report that seems to contradict the article. The report has been made by the OECD.
Just have a look to this PDF document.
If I compare it with the content of the article, it seems that the 'idiot in chief' has made a good job !