[Fidelista]

Is Osama Bin Laden dead, or alive ?.
What do you think?. >f

[wacor]

If I was to guess I would say he probably dead.

If he was alive I would think we would have had some video.

He probably is up with all them virgins just having a grand old time thinking about how he has put our country in such turmoil.

[TooBad]

He is probably alive, but he has no real power anymore. His tactic to put all his eggs into Iraq has failed miserably. That is not to say that there are not terrorists still out there that are very bad and are trying to inflict mass casualties around the world. We have to continue to fight them where we find them if at all possible. They are not stupid and once they realize that they cannot win in Iraq, they will refocus and while it may take several years, we can't let our guard down just because they seem to be withdrawn.

Remember, they have a 1,000 year plan and we have, at best, a six month plan due to our collective ADD. They thought that the time was ripe for this level of engagement and that our weak-kneed liberals would have surrendered already. They were wrong so far, but it is no where near over yet. Our stupid "useful idiots" and willing marxists are always looking for an opportunity to aid our enemies to defeat the USA.

[wacor]

How can you say his tactic has failed miserably?

Seems like it is right on queue. We are stuck in a abyss. they can hit and run.

while I am optimistic we are gaining ground i am not willing yet to say he has failed. If Obama lives up to his word if he wins the election then OBL will have had a huge victory. Time was always on his side.

[twinofangelize56]

Oh, this is so confusing! Osama… Obama!!!

What if some ya-hoo gets himself drunk (again) and hears that Obama is in town….. not his…. and mistakes it for Osama? Then he decides to avenge the USA…. Gets his duck gun…. 3 shells… 2 quarts of oil for the 1968 Ford Pickup…. His dog Dufus… a 3 pack of Miller Lite… some snacks for the road… 6 cigarette butts from the front yard… and his best friend Guber. They jump into his trusty Ford… he attempts to start it…. Tries again…. Finally gets it going. Slams the shifter into first while putting his foot on the clutch… grinding a few gears… and off they go to the local get-together where he thinks Osama will be….. 2 states over!

It’s just too awful to think about. You’ll just have to imagine the ending yourself!

Save Obama! Vote for Another!

[SlackAli]

Originally Posted by twinofangelize56

Oh, this is so confusing! Osama… Obama!!!

What if some ya-hoo gets himself drunk (again) and hears that Obama is in town….. not his…. and mistakes it for Osama? Then he decides to avenge the USA…. Gets his duck gun…. 3 shells… 2 quarts of oil for the 1968 Ford Pickup…. His dog Dufus… a 3 pack of Miller Lite… some snacks for the road… 6 cigarette butts from the front yard… and his best friend Guber. They jump into his trusty Ford… he attempts to start it…. Tries again…. Finally gets it going. Slams the shifter into first while putting his foot on the clutch… grinding a few gears… and off they go to the local get-together where he thinks Osama will be….. 2 states over!

It’s just too awful to think about. You’ll just have to imagine the ending yourself!

Save Obama! Vote for Another!

You don't rate the American elcotorate then? Well written though

Probably still holed up in the Hindu Kush pleasuring the local four-legged fauna on a regular basis.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by wacor

How can you say his tactic has failed miserably?

Seems like it is right on queue. We are stuck in a abyss. they can hit and run.

while I am optimistic we are gaining ground i am not willing yet to say he has failed. If Obama lives up to his word if he wins the election then OBL will have had a huge victory. Time was always on his side.

I don't know how OBL will have success by Barak Obama's victory in election ? .
When conflict in Iraq is over , AQ is done in that country. Already the insurgents have taken time out from killing us and each other , to deal with them , with some success it seems .
The Iraqi has turned attention to them , and they will begin to have hard times.
No matter how stability comes , AQ cannot survive in it . In fact , they need a expanded war , or a new one in order to achieve their aims .
The efforts against AQ by the U.S. will continue , no matter the results of the election .
There is no one running for President that will ignore the obvious, Republican or Democrat.
Possibly , we may even find a more effective way to deal with them , and a sustainable one. Terrorist groups will always be with us , and the "war" never really won or finished .
As far as Obama's position , this is it >>>
" I will end the war in Iraq… I will close Guantanamo. I will restore habeas corpus. I will finish the fight against Al Qaeda. And I will lead the world to combat the common threats of the 21st century: nuclear weapons and terrorism"

Obama is not a pacifist , and is no stranger to the subject of Terrorism or vunerablities to it .
In fact , he is and has been a member of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee .
I do believe he would take a different approach to the problem , but hell , its been 7 yrs and we have accomplished squat .
wacor, the people who attacked us were nothing but a tiny group of criminal terrorists , and look what we have done. AQ is many fold larger , spread around the world , influence has grown , M.E. desablized further , occupation of a nation not involved , money flushed by hundreds of billions , more dead than terrorist could kill, friends alienated , people in the U.S at each others throats , and -- no closer to success than in begining. The opposite I think.
Perhaps its time to have someone a hell of lot smarter handling things , and rethink how we deal with criminals . This is not the way --IMO.
>f

[wacor]

I don't know how OBL will have success by Barak Obama's victory in election ? .
When conflict in Iraq is over , AQ is done in that country. Already the insurgents have taken time out from killing us and each other , to deal with them , with some success it seems .

They will be glorifying their fight and cheering from here to the moon if we leave per the way Obama is proposing to pull out. We disagree on this one. They are not going to go away. They will be enboldened and move on to other targets. As they did before Iraq.

As far as Obama's position , this is it >>>
" I will end the war in Iraq… I will close Guantanamo. I will restore habeas corpus. I will finish the fight against Al Qaeda. And I will lead the world to combat the common threats of the 21st century: nuclear weapons and terrorism"

I have seen nothing from him to indicate how he will finish the fight against AQ. Unless he is talking about negotiating. That is a pipe dream. IMO

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by wacor

They will be glorifying their fight and cheering from here to the moon if we leave per the way Obama is proposing to pull out. We disagree on this one. They are not going to go away. They will be enboldened and move on to other targets. As they did before Iraq.


I have seen nothing from him to indicate how he will finish the fight against AQ. Unless he is talking about negotiating. That is a pipe dream. IMO

They moved into Iraq because the Iraqi Govt had fallen . They could not have been there otherwise , and were not .
The invasion and occupation of Iraq is what made their entry possible.
I also think it aided in recruitment throughout the ME.
As far as finishing the fight against AQ , I don't know of anybody that can honestly say they have a simple answer as what will damage them the most, the best stratedgy .
I don't think finish is the right word however , I would think diminish would be more accurate.
There will always be Islamic nutcase's , there always has been , but never like we see today . I believe in cause and effect --not magic.
What would help AQ , embolden as you put it , would be a widening of the war in the region . They would make use of it EXACTLY like they did in Iraq.
They really need other people to fight us , and real military of an established state, or states to fight -- if they are to be successful or survive .
In the end , they will fail , thats my opinion . They may take lives , but they will rule nothing .
No US President will negotiate with AQ under any circumstances , you can be sure of that.
Has someone put forth the idea that Obama would negotiate with AQ? .
If so , I would be extremely suspect of their motives or common sense.
>f

[wacor]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

They moved into Iraq because the Iraqi Govt had fallen . They could not have been there otherwise , and were not .
The invasion and occupation of Iraq is what made their entry possible.
I also think it aided in recruitment throughout the ME.
As far as finishing the fight against AQ , I don't know of anybody that can honestly say they have a simple answer as what will damage them the most, the best stratedgy .
I don't think finish is the right word however , I would think diminish would be more accurate.
There will always be Islamic nutcase's , there always has been , but never like we see today . I believe in cause and effect --not magic.
What would help AQ , embolden as you put it , would be a widening of the war in the region . They would make use of it EXACTLY like they did in Iraq.
They really need other people to fight us , and real military of an established state, or states to fight -- if they are to be successful or survive .
In the end , they will fail , thats my opinion . They may take lives , but they will rule nothing .
No US President will negotiate with AQ under any circumstances , you can be sure of that.
Has someone put forth the idea that Obama would negotiate with AQ? .
If so , I would be extremely suspect of their motives or common sense.
>f

I understand your points. If not Iraq then they would have made inroads somewhere. Perhaps back in Afghanistan and would be mired in deep crap there. It is probably a worse area to fight as evidenced by the USSR struggle.

I did not say he indicated he would negotiate with AQ but is that really far fetched. The left thinks they can negotiate anything. I am all for that but sometimes animal instincts rule the day and it is survival of the fittest. That whole region is a mess and there is no answer other than for somebody to conquer once and for all. all least for the time being.

[TooBad]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

They moved into Iraq because the Iraqi Govt had fallen . They could not have been there otherwise , and were not .
The invasion and occupation of Iraq is what made their entry possible.
I also think it aided in recruitment throughout the ME.
As far as finishing the fight against AQ , I don't know of anybody that can honestly say they have a simple answer as what will damage them the most, the best stratedgy .
I don't think finish is the right word however , I would think diminish would be more accurate.
There will always be Islamic nutcase's , there always has been , but never like we see today . I believe in cause and effect --not magic.
What would help AQ , embolden as you put it , would be a widening of the war in the region . They would make use of it EXACTLY like they did in Iraq.
They really need other people to fight us , and real military of an established state, or states to fight -- if they are to be successful or survive .
In the end , they will fail , thats my opinion . They may take lives , but they will rule nothing .
No US President will negotiate with AQ under any circumstances , you can be sure of that.
Has someone put forth the idea that Obama would negotiate with AQ? .
If so , I would be extremely suspect of their motives or common sense.
>f

Sorry, but you are wrong. Al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war, that is a proven fact. No, Iraq did not help plan 9/11, but that does not mean that Iraq had no contact with Al Qaeda prior to the war.

[ChrisJones]

Got proof for that TooBad? Most intelligence sources now admit that there were no "Official" ties between AQ and Iraq. There is some evidence to suggest a general from Saddam's army MAY have had A meeting with someone from AQ but as far as I know, nothing more than that. I'm willing to read anything you want to post to corroborate your claims.

[ChrisJones]

WRT the thread topic, I personally believe he is alive and well and living in the Kashmir region of our "good allies" ( ) Pakistan.

[TooBad]

Originally Posted by ChrisJones

Got proof for that TooBad? Most intelligence sources now admit that there were no "Official" ties between AQ and Iraq. There is some evidence to suggest a general from Saddam's army MAY have had A meeting with someone from AQ but as far as I know, nothing more than that. I'm willing to read anything you want to post to corroborate your claims.

Zawakari or one of those top leutenant had his leg damaged in a strike and was treated in a Bagdad hospital. There were also Al qaeda training camps in Iraq for quite some time. That is the intelligence that I am aware of. I have seen nothing that contradicts that other than the lone intelligence officer that does not seem to believe it. Seeing how there are members of the CIA that are leaking classified information in attempts to discredit the Bush administration, I believe that we have traitors that should be prosecuted in the CIA.

[ChrisJones]

Originally Posted by TooBad

Zawakari or one of those top leutenant had his leg damaged in a strike and was treated in a Bagdad hospital. There were also Al qaeda training camps in Iraq for quite some time. That is the intelligence that I am aware of. I have seen nothing that contradicts that other than the lone intelligence officer that does not seem to believe it. Seeing how there are members of the CIA that are leaking classified information in attempts to discredit the Bush administration, I believe that we have traitors that should be prosecuted in the CIA.

I have never seen any evidence to suggest AQ had training camps in Iraq. Any links?