[lotuseclat79]

NY Times article here.

A review of the just released book, “The Age of American Unreason,” by author Susan Jacoby.

-- Tom

[win2kpro]

Yes, Americans are hostile to knowledge, and it extends all the way to the White House press secretary.

http://aman78.wordpress.com/2007/12/...-are-the-same/

[poochee]

Excellent book review. The author makes valid points.

[poochee]

Originally Posted by win2kpro

Yes, Americans are hostile to knowledge, and it extends all the way to the White House press secretary.

http://aman78.wordpress.com/2007/12/...-are-the-same/

For a person in her position, it's downright scarey!

[Mulderator]

Liberals are for sure--just look around this forum!

[pyritechips]

There was feel-good, anti-intellectual period of American history when the mood was put your nose to the grindstone and all goods things will come to those that commit to the American Dream.

That period was immediately after World War Two. Sputnik put an end to that. Suddenly the space race and a focus on science was both a priority and in the news. I think the same thing happened in a different context after September 11, 2001.

History does repeat itself.

[WarC]

Well, to be honest, our society does not place a premium on such knowledge. We don't reward it or give it value in our culture. It's actually a social stigma in some ways, the "geek" or "nerd" such as I am is the kind of person who delves into such things. I can clear a room with my ramblings about this age or this period in history. No one cares, they've got more interesting things to do or talk about.

Even politics are out of the thoughts of most people, even folks who vote regularly. In that respect TSG here is outside the normal realm of Americana. In such ways we help to create a politician's class, a psuedo aristocracy, where families and close knit groups pursue politics from generation to generation (Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, etc). People outside these fields can lead very successful lives, become wealthy and prosperous, all without a lick of knowledge about the world outside our borders - without knowing of history or diplomacy, without knowing about our past at all! It's not that people are stupid, its that they don't care for it, they are busy gaining knowledge that fits into their chosen fields or hobbies or interests.

Before someone goes and draws the parallel to Bush and Bush supporters (I'm already too late, I see), let me say that those whom are the most far to the left are those whom, in my experience, know the least about our history as a nation.

You think a Code Pink protestor could tell you about the circumstances that lead up to the American Revolution? You ever meet a feminist who could tell you about European colonialism, or the role of women in Islamic societies now versus a thousand years ago? They are wrapped up with current events and ideology, and "sift" through knowledge so as to find the evidence and information that they need to support their chosen ideologies.

I'd also venture to say that this is a phenomenon that strikes all western societies. I doubt that it is a strictly American thing, more like a western world thing. Technology and mass media are the catalysts for this.

[pyritechips]

Originally Posted by WarC

Well, to be honest, our society does not place a premium on such knowledge. We don't reward it or give it value in our culture. It's actually a social stigma in some ways, the "geek" or "nerd" such as I am is the kind of person who delves into such things. I can clear a room with my ramblings about this age or this period in history. No one cares, they've got more interesting things to do or talk about.

Even politics are out of the thoughts of most people, even folks who vote regularly. In that respect TSG here is outside the normal realm of Americana. In such ways we help to create a politician's class, a psuedo aristocracy, where families and close knit groups pursue politics from generation to generation (Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, etc). People outside these fields can lead very successful lives, become wealthy and prosperous, all without a lick of knowledge about the world outside our borders - without knowing of history or diplomacy, without knowing about our past at all! It's not that people are stupid, its that they don't care for it, they are busy gaining knowledge that fits into their chosen fields or hobbies or interests.

Before someone goes and draws the parallel to Bush and Bush supporters (I'm already too late, I see), let me say that those whom are the most far to the left are those whom, in my experience, know the least about our history as a nation.

You think a Code Pink protestor could tell you about the circumstances that lead up to the American Revolution? You ever meet a feminist who could tell you about European colonialism, or the role of women in Islamic societies now versus a thousand years ago? They are wrapped up with current events and ideology, and "sift" through knowledge so as to find the evidence and information that they need to support their chosen ideologies.

I'd also venture to say that this is a phenomenon that strikes all western societies. I doubt that it is a strictly American thing, more like a western world thing. Technology and mass media are the catalysts for this.

That is a well thought out and written post, reflecting on the sociological reality of North American society, at the least (note that I am including Canada; our nations are more similar then disparate). I particularly like the thoughts I have bolded.

Well done.

[linskyjack]

Originally Posted by WarC

Well, to be honest, our society does not place a premium on such knowledge. We don't reward it or give it value in our culture. It's actually a social stigma in some ways, the "geek" or "nerd" such as I am is the kind of person who delves into such things. I can clear a room with my ramblings about this age or this period in history. No one cares, they've got more interesting things to do or talk about.

Even politics are out of the thoughts of most people, even folks who vote regularly. In that respect TSG here is outside the normal realm of Americana. In such ways we help to create a politician's class, a psuedo aristocracy, where families and close knit groups pursue politics from generation to generation (Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, etc). People outside these fields can lead very successful lives, become wealthy and prosperous, all without a lick of knowledge about the world outside our borders - without knowing of history or diplomacy, without knowing about our past at all! It's not that people are stupid, its that they don't care for it, they are busy gaining knowledge that fits into their chosen fields or hobbies or interests.

Before someone goes and draws the parallel to Bush and Bush supporters (I'm already too late, I see), let me say that those whom are the most far to the left are those whom, in my experience, know the least about our history as a nation.

You think a Code Pink protestor could tell you about the circumstances that lead up to the American Revolution? You ever meet a feminist who could tell you about European colonialism, or the role of women in Islamic societies now versus a thousand years ago? They are wrapped up with current events and ideology, and "sift" through knowledge so as to find the evidence and information that they need to support their chosen ideologies.

I'd also venture to say that this is a phenomenon that strikes all western societies. I doubt that it is a strictly American thing, more like a western world thing. Technology and mass media are the catalysts for this.

You were going okay until the nonsense about Code Pink protestors. I would wager a guess that based on your posts, most of them know more about the circumstances that led up to the American revolution then you do. Why does being against the Iraqi war mean that they don't know basic history? Heck, most wingers I know think they know about the "circumstances that lead up to the American revolution", but most of them I have met, like you, haven't even read the seminal works on the subject.

Hey, I will give you credit--- you put on a good show as you try to couch your right wing politics in pseudo-intellectual terms.

Pyromaniac's theory of why the majority of Americans are anti-intellectual is just absurd. I'll explain that in my next post.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

I would wager a guess that based on your posts, most of them know more about the circumstances that led up to the American revolution then you do.

And you'd lose that bet--badly. Most "protestors" in general don't know jack about what they are protesting--they are looking for something in their pitiful lives--WarC has forgotten more than most of those clowns ever knew. Code pink is no different--most of those people are either mentally or emotionally unblanced--or both--they have quite a bit in common with you and the thread starter actually!

[linskyjack]

Mulder, in your mind, anyone who is against the war is mentally or emotionally unbalanced---That includes 70% of the American population.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Mulder, in your mind, anyone who is against the war is mentally or emotionally unbalanced---That includes 70% of the American population.

No--got nothing to do with war--I've seen the type of people that "protest" -- there the same damn idiots--whether its war in Iraq, or building a highway or killing chickens--they just move from one protest to the next. Like you in this forum--blind zeloutry without a clue!

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by poochee

For a person in her position, it's downright scarey!

Figures ! >f

“Do you want to address the remarks by President Putin, who said the United States setting up a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe was like the Soviet Union putting missiles in Cuba, setting up a Cuban missile crisis?”, she replied saying:

“I was panicked a bit because I really don’t know about . . . the Cuban Missile Crisis,” said Perino, who at 35 was born about a decade after the 1962 U.S.-Soviet nuclear showdown. “It had to do with Cuba and missiles, I’m pretty sure.”

.

[Sarge]

Sounds to me like she was just being sarcastic. Oh...um...nevermind I read the whole article.

"I came home and I asked my husband," she said on air. "I said, 'Wasn't that like the Bay of Pigs thing?' And he said, 'Oh, Dana.' "

[jmosmith]

Originally Posted by Mulderator

And you'd lose that bet--badly. Most "protestors" in general don't know jack about what they are protesting--they are looking for something in their pitiful lives--WarC has forgotten more than most of those clowns ever knew. Code pink is no different--most of those people are either mentally or emotionally unblanced--or both--they have quite a bit in common with you and the thread starter actually!

It's Fallacious Multiple Choice, take your pick:

Amazing Familiarity
the speaker seems to have information that there is no possible way for him to get, on the basis of his own statements.

or,...

Argument By Generalization
drawing a broad conclusion from a small number of perhaps unrepresentative cases. (The cases may be unrepresentative because of Selective Observation.)

Originally Posted by Mulderator

No--got nothing to do with war--I've seen the type of people that "protest" -- there the same damn idiots--whether its war in Iraq, or building a highway or killing chickens--they just move from one protest to the next. ...

Fallacy Of The General Rule
assuming that something true in general is true in every possible case.

...I'm going for "D", ...all of the above.

baseless,... meaningless,... valueless,...

Thanks,
Jmo