There's no such thing as a stupid question, but they're the easiest to answer.
JoinTour
Login
 
Tag Cloud
acer black screen boot computer connection crash css dell display driver drivers email error excel explorer firefox firefox 3 freeze game hard drive internet internet explorer itunes laptop lcd linux malware monitor network networking nvidia outlook outlook 2003 outlook express partition printer problem router slow software sound startup trojan usb video virus vista windows windows xp wireless
Civilized Debate
Search
Search in:
 
Advanced Search
Tech Support Guy Forums > Community > Civilized Debate >
Bad side of grain based biofuels


HELLO AND WELCOME! Before you can post your question, you'll have to register -- it's completely free! Click here to join today! We highly recommend that you print a copy of our Guide for New Members. Enjoy!

 
Thread Tools
win2kpro's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 6,832 posts.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southeast
Experience: OEM Builder and Repair
14-Apr-2008, 05:59 PM #1
Bad side of grain based biofuels
"When millions of people are going hungry, it's a crime against humanity that food should be diverted to biofuels," said India's finance minister, Palaniappan Chidambaram, in an interview. Turkey's finance minister, Mehmet Simsek, said the use of food for biofuels is "appalling."

Good article;

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1208..._us_whats_news
__________________
Registered Microsoft® OEM Partner.

4 words a technician doesn't want to hear; "My friend told me"

PLEASE, NO PM's. PLEASE ASK ANY QUESTIONS IN YOUR THREAD. THANK YOU!

I will never understand why people spend a few hundred dollars on a video card or cards, then try to run their machine on a $30 power supply.

Don't be fooled by Power Supply Manufactures numbers. Advertised watts don't mean squat!
pyritechips's Avatar
Computer Specs
Distinguished Member with 12,645 posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Cowtown, against my will
Experience: Wanna-be Daddy
14-Apr-2008, 06:45 PM #2
Yeah there is a looming food crisis but of course people either don't know or don't care.

Here is another article about it: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/food/prices.html
Bastiat's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 3,129 posts.
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
14-Apr-2008, 08:35 PM #3
Maybe we should trade the grain for oil?

I've maintained and been pooed pooed by the resident semi-intelligentsia that food is the major resource of this planet not oil. Any country that can not feed its own citizens will never be a world power. China, for example, is losing tillable land at an alarming rate.
__________________
Color is the deed and sufferings of light.......Goethe

Where there is one religion, there is despotism; where there are two, civil war. Let there be thirty religions and they will live together in peace........Voltaire
pyritechips's Avatar
Computer Specs
Distinguished Member with 12,645 posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Cowtown, against my will
Experience: Wanna-be Daddy
14-Apr-2008, 08:44 PM #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastiat View Post
Maybe we should trade the grain for oil?

I've maintained and been pooed pooed by the resident semi-intelligentsia that food is the major resource of this planet not oil. Any country that can not feed its own citizens will never be a world power. China, for example, is losing tillable land at an alarming rate.
Yes, food is the primary "fuel" of human kind, not oil. To use food to produce so-called "green" fuel is pure folly. There is a net loss in such policy.
Bastiat's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 3,129 posts.
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
14-Apr-2008, 08:52 PM #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyritechips View Post
To use food to produce so-called "green" fuel is pure folly. There is a net loss in such policy.
The net loss is only to those countries that can not make up the difference, those that have excess capacity, such as Canada, can have the best of both worlds....a source of cleaner fuel and food. Simply.....don't fudge with farmers.
pyritechips's Avatar
Computer Specs
Distinguished Member with 12,645 posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Cowtown, against my will
Experience: Wanna-be Daddy
14-Apr-2008, 08:56 PM #6
Yes, it is emerging nations like India and China that are putting the squeeze on world food supplies while Canada, with only 33 million people, are exporting like crazy, much to it's profit, but if the current trend continues there will be less and less to export.
Bastiat's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 3,129 posts.
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
14-Apr-2008, 09:36 PM #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyritechips View Post
Yes, it is emerging nations like India and China that are putting the squeeze on world food supplies while Canada, with only 33 million people, are exporting like crazy, much to it's profit, but if the current trend continues there will be less and less to export.
My point exactly.....should you wish to checkout the CIA Factbook you will find that neither China nor India can feed their own continuing to grow population. And, what makes it worse is they both are losing land that could be used to grow food. If you are a politcal leader that has to be a major concern for your country.
__________________
Color is the deed and sufferings of light.......Goethe

Where there is one religion, there is despotism; where there are two, civil war. Let there be thirty religions and they will live together in peace........Voltaire
pyritechips's Avatar
Computer Specs
Distinguished Member with 12,645 posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Cowtown, against my will
Experience: Wanna-be Daddy
14-Apr-2008, 09:50 PM #8
Yes, to have a "food deficit" is a decidedly crippling factor for any emerging nation. The books have to balance and they can't if whatever gain an emerging nation earns is sucked up to pay the debts of supplying the basic necessities of life.

Here is another thought. How does it look to other nations when the gluttons of America, Canada and Europe suck up precious and much needed food supplies merely to produce fuel to power our SUV's?
__________________
The Canadian Group

"Respect is earned; it is not a birthright." - some crusty ol' Pyrite

"The unknown breeds fear.
Fear breeds hatred.
Hatred breeds violence.
Break the cycle of hatred and violence: stop being ignorant and educate yourself." - ?
Bastiat's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 3,129 posts.
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
14-Apr-2008, 10:40 PM #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by pyritechips View Post
Here is another thought. How does it look to other nations when the gluttons of America, Canada and Europe suck up precious and much needed food supplies merely to produce fuel to power our SUV's?
Your premise is incorrect, there is no "glutton" in the US or Canada nor do we suck up food supplies. We grew it we can determine its use. Food is a commodity just like oil or nickel or wood, nothing more nothing less. We don't tell India what to do with tea nor China with rice so why should we be told that we are "gluttons" for using our commodity how we deem fit?
__________________
Color is the deed and sufferings of light.......Goethe

Where there is one religion, there is despotism; where there are two, civil war. Let there be thirty religions and they will live together in peace........Voltaire
ekim68's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 16,526 posts.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Experience: Still kickin'
14-Apr-2008, 11:02 PM #10
In a way we've had transportation pretty cheap over the years. And, that's contributed to the gluttony of energy. Up until about 40 years ago our downtown was the place to go and it wasn't far. Soon the shopping malls on the outskirts of town were built and they made it easy to get to on the freeway. Nowadays, as gas prices go, I'm not going to those malls...I know I could bike ten miles, and I do sometimes, but it used to be cheaper.
bassetman's Avatar
Computer Specs
Moderator with 47,094 posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Great White North (WI)
Experience: Getting somewhere I hope
15-Apr-2008, 12:19 AM #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekim68 View Post
In a way we've had transportation pretty cheap over the years. And, that's contributed to the gluttony of energy. Up until about 40 years ago our downtown was the place to go and it wasn't far. Soon the shopping malls on the outskirts of town were built and they made it easy to get to on the freeway. Nowadays, as gas prices go, I'm not going to those malls...I know I could bike ten miles, and I do sometimes, but it used to be cheaper.
Maybe it will revitalize our downtowns!
LuckyStrike's Avatar
Computer Specs
Senior Member with 1,819 posts.
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Central Illinois
Experience: Intermediate
15-Apr-2008, 02:29 AM #12
You know the United States and Canada both produce a surplus of grains and oil seeds with respect to our domestic consumption even after using some for bio-fuels.

Instead of vilifying the U.S. and Canada, why not vilify Africa. Africa is a vast natural resource rich continent. Africa should not only be able to feed itself, but be a major exporter of food. It is not able to feed itself, much less be a major exporter of food. This is due to bad governments. It is bad governments all over the world, in Africa, in South America, in China, in Eastern Europe, etc, etc, that are to blame for the food crisis. The United States and Canada, with their highly productive free market economies have not only subsidized their own populations with cheap food due to our abundant productivity, but also the rest of the world.

Just imagine if the United States and Canada had socialist economies with government controlled collectivized farms such as in the former U.S.S.R. or China. Then the world would really be starving.

Last edited by LuckyStrike : 15-Apr-2008 02:41 AM.
bassetman's Avatar
Computer Specs
Moderator with 47,094 posts.
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Great White North (WI)
Experience: Getting somewhere I hope
15-Apr-2008, 03:29 AM #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyStrike View Post
You know the United States and Canada both produce a surplus of grains and oil seeds with respect to our domestic consumption even after using some for bio-fuels.

Instead of vilifying the U.S. and Canada, why not vilify Africa. Africa is a vast natural resource rich continent. Africa should not only be able to feed itself, but be a major exporter of food. It is not able to feed itself, much less be a major exporter of food. This is due to bad governments. It is bad governments all over the world, in Africa, in South America, in China, in Eastern Europe, etc, etc, that are to blame for the food crisis. The United States and Canada, with their highly productive free market economies have not only subsidized their own populations with cheap food due to our abundant productivity, but also the rest of the world.

Just imagine if the United States and Canada had socialist economies with government controlled collectivized farms such as in the former U.S.S.R. or China. Then the world would really be starving.
I believe Africa has a raun problem!
LANMaster's Avatar
Community Moderator with 43,627 posts.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central USA
Experience: Need no stinking badges
15-Apr-2008, 11:13 AM #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyStrike View Post
You know the United States and Canada both produce a surplus of grains and oil seeds with respect to our domestic consumption even after using some for bio-fuels.

Instead of vilifying the U.S. and Canada, why not vilify Africa. Africa is a vast natural resource rich continent. Africa should not only be able to feed itself, but be a major exporter of food. It is not able to feed itself, much less be a major exporter of food. This is due to bad governments. It is bad governments all over the world, in Africa, in South America, in China, in Eastern Europe, etc, etc, that are to blame for the food crisis. The United States and Canada, with their highly productive free market economies have not only subsidized their own populations with cheap food due to our abundant productivity, but also the rest of the world.

Just imagine if the United States and Canada had socialist economies with government controlled collectivized farms such as in the former U.S.S.R. or China. Then the world would really be starving.
Something to ponder as the US looks to possibly select a leader that espouses a far more Socialist doctrine for the future.

Bravo!

Brilliant analysis.
steppenwolf's Avatar
Senior Member with 1,673 posts.
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: usa
Experience: Intermediate
15-Apr-2008, 11:29 AM #15
coca cola controlls water in 3rd world companies-did i read that at killercoke.org?

so its the companies that controll the world not governments?
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
WELCOME TO TECH SUPPORT GUY! Are you looking for the solution to your computer problem? Join our site today to ask your question -- for free! Our site is run completely by volunteers who help people like you solve computer problems. See our Welcome Guide to get started.



Thread Tools


You Are Using:
Server ID
Advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:35 PM.
Copyright © 1996 - 2008 TechGuy, Inc. All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin, Copyright © 2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
Powered by Cermak Technologies, Inc.