[Bastiat]

Originally Posted by Flags

Continue playing Horatio at the bridge or Davy Crockett at the Alamo.
I wish you luck with your crusade, but I will not hold my breath.

I believe the appropriate analogy would be Don Quixote and the Windmills.

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by Flags

Freedom is a 2-way street. Your rights end where another's begin.
HP has the right to sell what they want, you have the right to buy what you want.
Trying to force anyone to do something he doesn't want to do, is not freedom, it's coercion.
You made your bed, now lie in it.

This should be moved to Civilized Debate or Random Discussions.

The question is do they have the right to disable a feature of a 3rd party's product?

[Bastiat]

Originally Posted by bassetman

The question is do they have the right to disable a feature of a 3rd party's product?

Ah genius, when you buy a car can you take out the rear seat if you want? Could you then sell it without the rear seat? And if I bought it knowing that the rear seat was removed could I later complain to you that you sold me a car without a rear seat?

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by Freebirdz75

I wrote this letter to HP today. People need to stand up for their rights.

To whom it may concern:

I purchased an HP laptop recently on purpose, knowing it did not have internal recording features. ..........................


.........

I don't see your argument.....you got what was advertised by HP, didn't you?

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by Bastiat

Ah genius, when you buy a car can you take out the rear seat if you want? Could you then sell it without the rear seat? And if I bought it knowing that the rear seat was removed could I later complain to you that you sold me a car without a rear seat?

You are slow for a lawyer (supposedly), can the dealer take out the back seat w/o your or the manufacurer's permission?

[Freebirdz75]

Ah genius, when you buy a car can you take out the rear seat if you want? Could you then sell it without the rear seat? And if I bought it knowing that the rear seat was removed could I later complain to you that you sold me a car without a rear seat?

If I bought a car without a rear seat, it would be visibly obvious. Therefore, there would be no room for debate. Try to think of it as a movement of the people, for lack of better expressions. People like you and me, and the ordinary non-suspecting windows users, who purchase a windows pc or laptop with the assumption that, with nothing but technological advances, their pc will have everything their other pc's have had in the past...and more. If the PC was sold without the "G" key, it would parallel your analogy.

I don't see your argument.....you got what was advertised by HP, didn't you?

This laptop was labeled "special addition" and "HP Pavilion Entertainment PC" for starters. Why would anyone think that a feature that has been around in computers since 1995, would not be present in this entertainment notebook?

Let's say that you purchased a PC from your local retailer and brought it home. You spend some time with it, and realize that your computer manufacturer has disabled a critical windows-based feature, the "save as" option. It is no longer there. Now, any modifications to documents is permanent. Your computer manufacturer does this to avoid heat from publishers who are avidly trying to protect their authors work, yet they don't advertise it on the feature card at your local retailer. Wait, you don't steal other peoples' words, nor do you alter them. So why is this feature gone? SOME PEOPLE DO. It's essentially a like comparison. We can rely on companies who limit our freedom to save their own skin, or we can refuse it. More and more windows-based manufacturers are selling out to this lame attempt by the RIAA to limit pirates'/hackers' capabilities, and everyone else who uses the products legitimately are penalized.

On a side-note, you guys have been really great in helping me figure everything out, and I always feel like I am doing the right thing. Cheers

p.s. still no reply from HP, and bassetman nailed it in the last post.

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by Freebirdz75

If I bought a car without a rear seat, it would be visibly obvious. Therefore, there would be no room for debate. Try to think of it as a movement of the people, for lack of better expressions. People like you and me, and the ordinary non-suspecting windows users, who purchase a windows pc or laptop with the assumption that, with nothing but technological advances, their pc will have everything their other pc's have had in the past...and more. If the PC was sold without the "G" key, it would parallel your analogy.



This laptop was labeled "special addition" and "HP Pavilion Entertainment PC" for starters. Why would anyone think that a feature that has been around in computers since 1995, would not be present in this entertainment notebook?

Let's say that you purchased a PC from your local retailer and brought it home. You spend some time with it, and realize that your computer manufacturer has disabled a critical windows-based feature, the "save as" option. It is no longer there. Now, any modifications to documents is permanent. Your computer manufacturer does this to avoid heat from publishers who are avidly trying to protect their authors work, yet they don't advertise it on the feature card at your local retailer. Wait, you don't steal other peoples' words, nor do you alter them. So why is this feature gone? SOME PEOPLE DO. It's essentially a like comparison. We can rely on companies who limit our freedom to save their own skin, or we can refuse it. More and more windows-based manufacturers are selling out to this lame attempt by the RIAA to limit pirates'/hackers' capabilities, and everyone else who uses the products legitimately are penalized.

On a side-note, you guys have been really great in helping me figure everything out, and I always feel like I am doing the right thing. Cheers

p.s. still no reply from HP, and bassetman nailed it in the last post.

[Knotbored]

Seldom have I seen so little substance expanded into so many words.

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by Knotbored

Seldom have I seen so little substance expanded into so many words.

Agreed.


The buyer paid for what was advertised.

I have XPmce 2005 loaded on my pc as it came from the factory.
And yet there is no means to watch TV or record a TV broad cast....there was no addin card supplied with the pc and I knew it to begin with.
I paid a low price . I received what I paid for.

This thread doesn't deserve to be in civ debate, imo........sent it to Random _

[BlackSpike]

Originally Posted by Freebirdz75

I wrote this letter to HP today. People need to stand up for their rights.

To whom it may concern:

I purchased an HP laptop recently on purpose, knowing it did not have internal recording features. I wanted to see how HP would work with me to rectify this situation. I am an avid blogger and musician, recreationally. I am thinking about quitting my job and blogging full-time. Why, you may ask?

Manufacturing and distributing products to consumers that are currently restricted in features without warning is unethical. Specifically, using a soundcard that has the capability of internal recording, and intentionally disabling the feature because certain individuals use your "waveout mix" setting for illegal reasons, is frankly, absurd. Moreover, misinforming or having your technical support team "keep quiet" about these issues will no-doubtingly have an adverse effect on your company image with the right voice.

I documented and saved two online chat sessions with an HP "technical support" agent, which was a complete waste of our time. I told them that the "waveout-mix" option was missing in my "recording" option window. One rep suggested uninstalling the souncard driver, and downloading and installing the driver again. The other rep said I should restore my computer to the earliest restore point possible. Then he said I would most likely have to take it to the retail store where I had purchased and have them mail it to the manufacturer. Please train your support techs.

I defend "fair use" and support the EFF, and yet I am essentially paying for P2P thieves' actions.

Now, if Conexant (your soundcard manufacturer) produced soundcards that did not have the "waveout mix" option, as unfortunate as that may be, it would be much more tolerable. Purposely disabling a feature because of the RIAA is a horrible business move, and a lot of people know that HP has done this (I am making it my job to inform all the people who are law-abiding citizens that utilize this feature legally, and anyone who will listen, and tell them what you have done). I have no economic restraints, and a lot of time on my hands. Additionally, I have eight days left to return this laptop, and purchase a Dell, which now has stereo-mix features incorporated once again in their computers.

Help keep this country free, as we as a nation are failing to grasp the fundamentals of freedom. Do your part, and provide Conexant updates.

If you knew beforehand the technical capabilities of the machine, then you have no claim.
If you had started your letter "I recently bought a HP laptop in good faith, but after purchase found that some of the expected capabilities were disabled ..." you would have something to complain about.

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by Freebirdz75

If I bought a car without a rear seat, it would be visibly obvious. Therefore, there would be no room for debate. Try to think of it as a movement of the people, for lack of better expressions. People like you and me, and the ordinary non-suspecting windows users, who purchase a windows pc or laptop with the assumption that, with nothing but technological advances, their pc will have everything their other pc's have had in the past...and more. If the PC was sold without the "G" key, it would parallel your analogy.



This laptop was labeled "special addition" and "HP Pavilion Entertainment PC" for starters. Why would anyone think that a feature that has been around in computers since 1995, would not be present in this entertainment notebook?

Let's say that you purchased a PC from your local retailer and brought it home. You spend some time with it, and realize that your computer manufacturer has disabled a critical windows-based feature, the "save as" option. It is no longer there. Now, any modifications to documents is permanent. Your computer manufacturer does this to avoid heat from publishers who are avidly trying to protect their authors work, yet they don't advertise it on the feature card at your local retailer. Wait, you don't steal other peoples' words, nor do you alter them. So why is this feature gone? SOME PEOPLE DO. It's essentially a like comparison. We can rely on companies who limit our freedom to save their own skin, or we can refuse it. More and more windows-based manufacturers are selling out to this lame attempt by the RIAA to limit pirates'/hackers' capabilities, and everyone else who uses the products legitimately are penalized.

On a side-note, you guys have been really great in helping me figure everything out, and I always feel like I am doing the right thing. Cheers

p.s. still no reply from HP, and bassetman nailed it in the last post.

If I bought a car without a rear seat, it would be visibly obvious. Therefore, there would be no room for debate. Try to think of it as a movement of the people, for lack of better expressions. People like you and me, and the ordinary non-suspecting windows users, who purchase a windows pc or laptop with the assumption that, with nothing but technological advances, their pc will have everything their other pc's have had in the past...and more. If the PC was sold without the "G" key, it would parallel your analogy.

If you bought a pc with out the 'G' key.....it would be broken.
(-------------> )

Let's say that you purchased a PC from your local retailer and brought it home. You spend some time with it, and realize that your computer manufacturer has disabled a critical windows-based feature, the "save as" option.

Let's not.....that's an incredibly poor analogy.
Lets say, the video card didn't have a feature you needed to watch tv.
But the advertised specs of the computer didn't specify that the computer could be used in that manner, out of the box.
Result....you bought the wrong model and should have been paying attention to what you purchased.
But you admit you did this intentionally.
Yours is a disingenuous argument, imo.

We can rely on companies who limit our freedom to save their own skin, or we can refuse it. More and more windows-based manufacturers are selling out to this lame attempt by the RIAA to limit pirates'/hackers' capabilities, and everyone else who uses the products legitimately are penalized.

Sounds like you need to load a distro of Linux on your new pc _
Meh!

On a side-note, you guys have been really great in helping me figure everything out, and I always feel like I am doing the right thing. Cheers

You're welcome

[Freebirdz75]

Well, at least I know the road is going to be long and narrow, because people easily forgo their freedoms without so much as a fight, and mock others who stand up for what they believe, but then catch a free ride from time to time, and are unaware of the sacrifice for those freedoms. The substance is here, but some people choose to blog in circles, missing the greater picture, yet having no problems criticizing or being condescending. Glad to see we're all mature in this forum.

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by Freebirdz75

Well, at least I know the road is going to be long and narrow, because people easily forgo their freedoms without so much as a fight, and mock others who stand up for what they believe, but then catch a free ride from time to time, and are unaware of the sacrifice for those freedoms. The substance is here, but some people choose to blog in circles, missing the greater picture, yet having no problems criticizing or being condescending. Glad to see we're all mature in this forum.

So far, you haven't proven to me that you are interested in the freedoms of anyone.
All I see is complaining that you didn't receive more than you paid for.
I'd rather you didn't represent me in your quest to rip off HP.

[SlackAli]

You gotta love this guy's style though: he now seems to be equating the fact he knowingly bought an unsuitable laptop with the civil rights movement. Full marks though for being brave enough to air your stupidity in a public forum

[BlackSpike]

Originally Posted by Freebirdz75

Well, at least I know the road is going to be long and narrow, because people easily forgo their freedoms without so much as a fight, and mock others who stand up for what they believe, but then catch a free ride from time to time, and are unaware of the sacrifice for those freedoms. The substance is here, but some people choose to blog in circles, missing the greater picture, yet having no problems criticizing or being condescending. Glad to see we're all mature in this forum.

The way you presented the letter, it appears to me as though you specifically bought the laptop so that you could complain about the missing feature.
You knew the feature was missing/disabled.
If you wanted to bring HP to task for disabling the feature, you could have done it without buying the laptop, rather than buying it in full knowledge of the situation, and then complaining.

I have fought for Freedom on several occasions, with varying degrees of success.
I try to pick my battles, and fight them in my way.
Telling someone else that I think they are fighting the wrong way is far from giving in. I even gave you a suggestion on how to fight a more winnable battle.