[Freebirdz75]

I wrote this letter to HP today. People need to stand up for their rights.

To whom it may concern:

I purchased an HP laptop recently on purpose, knowing it did not have internal recording features. I wanted to see how HP would work with me to rectify this situation. I am an avid blogger and musician, recreationally. I am thinking about quitting my job and blogging full-time. Why, you may ask?

Manufacturing and distributing products to consumers that are currently restricted in features without warning is unethical. Specifically, using a soundcard that has the capability of internal recording, and intentionally disabling the feature because certain individuals use your "waveout mix" setting for illegal reasons, is frankly, absurd. Moreover, misinforming or having your technical support team "keep quiet" about these issues will no-doubtingly have an adverse effect on your company image with the right voice.

I documented and saved two online chat sessions with an HP "technical support" agent, which was a complete waste of our time. I told them that the "waveout-mix" option was missing in my "recording" option window. One rep suggested uninstalling the souncard driver, and downloading and installing the driver again. The other rep said I should restore my computer to the earliest restore point possible. Then he said I would most likely have to take it to the retail store where I had purchased and have them mail it to the manufacturer. Please train your support techs.

I defend "fair use" and support the EFF, and yet I am essentially paying for P2P thieves' actions.

Now, if Conexant (your soundcard manufacturer) produced soundcards that did not have the "waveout mix" option, as unfortunate as that may be, it would be much more tolerable. Purposely disabling a feature because of the RIAA is a horrible business move, and a lot of people know that HP has done this (I am making it my job to inform all the people who are law-abiding citizens that utilize this feature legally, and anyone who will listen, and tell them what you have done). I have no economic restraints, and a lot of time on my hands. Additionally, I have eight days left to return this laptop, and purchase a Dell, which now has stereo-mix features incorporated once again in their computers.

Help keep this country free, as we as a nation are failing to grasp the fundamentals of freedom. Do your part, and provide Conexant updates.

[DreadStorm]

I want to know if they reply.

[matthew0155]

i hate hp, i remember when computers first started becoming intergrated, on the hp box it said NOT INTERGRATED, 6 months later the intergrated sound card broke, so the mobo was scrap after that, that was the last computer we ever bought. Now we only build.

[DreadStorm]

I had an HP printer once. Set it on fire out at my shop.

You know that sucker jumped 8 feet in the air when the capacitors exploded?

[matthew0155]

cool

[daniel_b2380]

Freebirdz75,
not trying for any flaming here,
just a couple questions,

quote in part:
I purchased an HP laptop recently on purpose, knowing it did not have internal recording features. I wanted to see how HP would work with me to rectify this situation.
I have no economic restraints, and a lot of time on my hands.

knew ahead of time, bought anyway?
i kind of feel like if i'm merchandising a product,
it's my choice what bells & whistles i incorporate,
don't like the peaches, don't shake the tree,

but is that attitude like some hackers?
get hp, under pressure, [I HAVE A BLOG!], to buckle,
then advertise it on the blog?

actually the one tech already told you HOW to do the hack,
IF you didn't have to be led around by the hand,
[the hack IS already known],

very similar to p2p programs,
nothing illegal about the progams and their original intention,
but look at the abrogated use they have been put to,

probably should have been posted in one of these sub-forums,
http://forums.techguy.org/63-community/

just my $0.02 and a different way of looking at it,

[Freebirdz75]

Originally Posted by daniel_b2380

Freebirdz75,

actually the one tech already told you HOW to do the hack,
IF you didn't have to be led around by the hand,
[the hack IS already known],

They did? I must have missed it, as I have no recollection of a solution from any tech, but I accept your patronizing comments with graciousness and humility. Led by the hand? No tech told me how to do a hack. Please elaborate, as I am fully interested in a solution. Preferably, I would like HP to provide instructions on how to enable the feature upon request. By the way, is enabling a feature really considered a "hack?"

As far as attitudes of hackers, you lost me there. I know you were trying to make a point, but I failed to see what it was. I do not know the attitudes of hackers, as I do not study their actions or words.

[Flags]

Freedom is a 2-way street. Your rights end where another's begin.
HP has the right to sell what they want, you have the right to buy what you want.
Trying to force anyone to do something he doesn't want to do, is not freedom, it's coercion.
You made your bed, now lie in it.

This should be moved to Civilized Debate or Random Discussions.

[dannyn]

i don't like hp much. i have two of their laptops, they do what they were built for but for what i paid they are nothing great. way to stand up for what you believe.

[Freebirdz75]

EVERYBODY WHO WORKS WITH AUDIO OF ANY KIND, OR ANYONE CONSIDERING IT, SHOULD NOT BUY AN HP.

Thanks for the support dannyn.

To Flags: lie in the bed I made...hmm, nah. I'm not one of those people, maybe you are. I think I'm going to ride this one out for another 6 days (I can still take it back and exchange it for a REAL computer).

I'm doubtfully curious as to whether or not you fully comprehend what I'm talking about however. Did you even read my thread? Technical support is either KNOWINGLY UNTRAINED, or they are FORCED TO KEEP QUIET and act ignorant about this particular issue. If the option to utilize a feature on my soundcard is present, then it should be made available per my request. In this case, it is...and it would cost HP nothing to rectify the matter.

Sure, manufacturers can pretty much do whatever they want. The trouble is, all of the windows based computer manufacturers are scared into taking extreme precautions by driving forces like the RIAA. Manufacturers do not want to be held liable for any illegal activity, yet they are doing nothing illegal. Fine you say, they can do what they please. Although saddened, I agree. People should know however, that EVERYBODY WHO WORKS WITH AUDIO OF ANY KIND, OR ANYONE CONSIDERING IT SHOULD NOT BUY AN HP. That's a very large number of people. Such a shame that they are going to be FORCED to resort to the competition, Apple Inc. Oh, I mean, such a shame for Hewlett Packard, that is. I've always heard that Macs were better for graphics and sound, but I've loved my PCs (3 HPs by the way Hal, a 1997 eMachines tower, a Gateway tower and Laptop). Now I am left with no other options than to learn a completely new computer and operating system...for one feature that is already present (yet disabled) on my HP laptop. Hal, are you scared of Vista yes? It's easy to have a smug attitude when one has everything he/she needs on their computer. The next bundled computer you buy, if any, will come with Vista, not XP, and all your time with that computer will be spent in here asking questions.



_________________________
Ryan
HP dv2845se notebook, AMD Turion 64 X2
250GB (5400RPM) hard drive
4GB DDR2 SDRAM (2 Dimm)
1 Trash Can and a magic wand
NEW APPLE MacBook Air!

[Flags]

Yes, Ryan, I read your thread, several times, actually.
What I got from it is that you bought a machine you knew would not do what you wanted and expected HP to change it just because you asked them to do so. Not only did you ask, but you threatened to make noises about it in your blog, causing them to lose X amount of future business. Did you not think that they thought about that point when they made the decision not to activate this particular feature?
Again, it was their choice, they will bear the consequences.

No, I am not afraid of Vista. I have done some work on Vista machines, and when the time comes for a new machine, I will build one with Vista as the OS, and will come to know and love it, but I certainly will miss XP.

Continue playing Horatio at the bridge or Davy Crockett at the Alamo.
I wish you luck with your crusade, but I will not hold my breath.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Flags

Yes, Ryan, I read your thread, several times, actually.
What I got from it is that you bought a machine you knew would not do what you wanted and expected HP to change it just because you asked them to do so.

Actually, I got the impression he did it just to see HOW HP would deal with it.

And FWIW, I found the hack in about 15 seconds, in the first hit on googling "hp laptop waveout audio hack":
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=169644

BTW, I'd warn off HP as well, based on a friend's recent experience: he bought a new top-of-HP's-line desktop machine, discovered he didn't like Vista on it, tried to install a legit copy of XP that he had... and the machine basically bricked itself when he tried booting from the XP CD. He had to take it back to the store, where for an extra $100, a tech used what I assume is a Linux boot disc to low-level wipe the drive before installing XP for him.

I'm told more and more manufacturers are doing this as well: "booby-trapping" their systems to prevent installation of XP or any other OS by the average user, and refusing to provide driver support for other OSes.

All the more reason to stick to custom-built PCs...

[Freebirdz75]

Soundy's right on the money, I did do it just to see how they would handle the situation. So far, I have not heard anything back from them.

Flags, thanks for your support. Nothing will happen unless people speak up, so I'm choosing to speak up. More and more windows-based manufacturers are removing that feature, and it's just sad. Musical composers who use midi keyboards hand-in-hand with their computers will no longer be able to record the sound their keyboards generate with expensive plug-ins, drum programs, virtual effects processors, pulling audio from home video etc.

As for my comments about freedom, companies can produce and people can buy whatever they want. It's looking like, without expensive PCIMI cards, that Mac is a reasonable solution.

Oh wait, I have to try Soundy's link. Let's say it works, then wah-la, my laptop is ready to go. Why couldn't HP do that? Rhetorical

[matthew0155]

you dont need to make a blog to tase hp, they do that with there products. why would you need to tell someone not to buy it

[Triple6]

I've moved this thread to Civilized debate, its not a really a hardware help request thread. You guys can debate who's in the wrong however much you want in this section.