[Wino]

Originally Posted by Mulderator

..................I estimate within 20 to 30 posts one of our resident Moore-Ons will come tell me how greedy I am and have no concern for the poor!

No one has to point out a given.

So, in your unbiased opinion, which currently has done more harm to the average US citizen.......which has caused the greatest increase in cost of food products............minimum wage hike or increased fuel cost? Keep in mind the republicans voted for the former (otherwise it would not have carried) and Bush signed off on it, and they are the majority cause of the latter.

[pyritechips]

...what used to be a $5.00 lunch only two years ago is now $7.00 to $7.50.

There are more factors that determine the strength of the economy and the price of goods and services. Here our economy is booming like you could not imagine. Houses that went for $130,999 five to ten years ago are now going for $300-350,000. It's an employee's market as employers are handing out higher salaries just to keep experienced workers. Companied are actually importing workers from around the world.

Is an economic boom good? Only to a point. I have recieved decent raises lately but I am actually worse off. That meal I enjoy so much and paid $15 for is now $17.50. The glass of wine that goes with the meal was $5.50 but is now $7.50. That morning cup of coffee was $2 but since the managers had to start paying fast food workers more money that cup of coffee is now $2.50 or $3. It is the law of supply and demand and as an exploding population increase means more people that are making more money, and demanding more things, the prices of everything are going up.

Is the upswing in the economy a good thing? Personally no. Our economy is actually causing a mini inflation. I personally would love to see a recession here. Prices would tumble but my salary would not. Those lazy workers that are sucking an overinflated salary out of the company would be laid off. Instead of screwing the pooch they would be forced to carry their own weight because there would be ten other people eagerly willing to do the work. Minimum wage here went from $8.00 to $8.40, a 5% increase. Of course, a gross monthly salary of $1,344 comes to nothing when even a small 4 room appartment costs $1,200. That's why we have what is called the "working homeless".

[pyritechips]

Originally Posted by Mulderator

Economics is part of the vast right wing conspiracy to keep the masses impoverished so the upper crust White Anglo Saxons can hoard all the money for themselves!

I estimate within 20 to 30 posts one of our resident Moore-Ons will come tell me how greedy I am and have no concern for the poor!

Hey! I am middle crust white Anglo Saxon. Can I bee greedy too!

[Bastiat]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

Hey! I am middle crust white Anglo Saxon. Can I bee greedy too!

No, your Canadian.

And I've always maintained that you're crusty.

[pyritechips]

Yeah, if this crusty ol' (Canadian) pyrite had a true sense of greed I'd be an upper crusty ol' pyrite.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Wino

No one has to point out a given.

So, in your unbiased opinion, which currently has done more harm to the average US citizen.......which has caused the greatest increase in cost of food products............minimum wage hike or increased fuel cost? Keep in mind the republicans voted for the former (otherwise it would not have carried) and Bush signed off on it, and they are the majority cause of the latter.

If you look at the CPI, I keyed in on ONLY the foods and beverages, not the fuel cost component of the CPI. But to answer you questions, fuel costs are constant in the world economy--that is if we have to pay more for a barrel of oil, so do China and India and Japan so everyone's products and services cost more. A hike in the minimum wage however, results only in America's goods and services costing more--so even you can figure out how that would effect the economy. So a SIGNIFICANT hike in the MW is always going to have a more detrimental effect than higher the fuel costs.

But more to the point is the second part of my post--its hurting the poor and it was supposssed to help the poor.

As to the 3rd part, yes the Republicans needs votes like the Democrats--and this is the amazing part of this particular issue is that so few people understand it and its ALWAYS a popular issue--that is people always want to raise the MW because most people earn much more and feel sorry for the people who are earning less--its because people are primarily fair minded. But that's why we have elected officials because they do understand this (most anyway). And if the Democrats hadn't pushed the MW as "helping the poor" the Republicans would not have voted for it--they had to do it or be seen as "favoring the rich and screwing the poor." Well you see who screws the poor for votes!

Finally, I thought that higher fuel costs are a good thing? Ask the rest of the world how much they pay for fuel. The liberals have been beating the alternative fuel drum for years. The only way alternative fuels will ever be developed is if gas prices are so high that the alternatives become economically feasible and the American public gets fed up with using oil. While oil is cheap, alternatives aren't going to happen.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

Yeah, if this crusty ol' (Canadian) pyrite had a true sense of greed I'd be an upper crusty ol' pyrite.

So if you could double your salary, you'd give half to charity I assume?

[johnnyburst79]

80% of the world lives on $1 a day or less but in America that simply is not possible. I don't drive or own a car, go grocery shopping once a month, and don't eat out. Taking everything into account with rent, water, electric, cell, and food, I spent on average, $30 a day. If I had a car payment or motorcycle payment with insurance that would increase significantly.

America has a preset of ideals of success which are out of the step with the rest of the world, but unfortunately the masses subscribe to the presets and create debt. Inflation continues to be a significant influence on the ability to buy household goods, fuel, energy, and food. The poor are getting poorer as their money buys less.

There is no resolution to this problem as our system of money management and basis of American financials is broken. Sure some succeed where others fail but right now the gap between rich and poor will only get greater while the fiat money system only serves to eliminate the middle class. Basically, it is economic darwinism.

Would a minimum wage increase help? Only those who receive minimum wage, but again, the cost of goods would be forced to go up and they would not be able to buy as much as previously so the problem remains. But it is not the big problem.

[ashes@work]

Originally Posted by Mulderator

Ignorance--complete ignorance. You don't have to be an economist to figure out that a double digit increase in the CPI of the food and beverage industry (a huge industry) would have an effect on the economy. Again, this confirms my anecdotal experience in seeing how expensive lunch has become--what used to be a $5.00 lunch only two years ago is now $7.00 to $7.50. I know I've seen a lot of people brown bagging it again--hell I'm even thinking about it. Lunch adds up after awhile.

The other place its very noticeable is the supermarket--the price of food has increased significantly in the last year alone--again--I can't be the only one noticing this. I know my wife switched supermarkets because of it. How in the world is the poor being helped by this? Maybe you in your infinite ignorance might venture a guess.

How about the price of Milk and Eggs.. my god it costs an arm and a leg to make a good breakfast in the morning.

[sy2]

Originally Posted by Mulderator

Ignorance--complete ignorance. You don't have to be an economist to figure out that a double digit increase in the CPI of the food and beverage industry (a huge industry) would have an effect on the economy. Again, this confirms my anecdotal experience in seeing how expensive lunch has become--what used to be a $5.00 lunch only two years ago is now $7.00 to $7.50. I know I've seen a lot of people brown bagging it again--hell I'm even thinking about it. Lunch adds up after awhile.

The other place its very noticeable is the supermarket--the price of food has increased significantly in the last year alone--again--I can't be the only one noticing this. I know my wife switched supermarkets because of it. How in the world is the poor being helped by this? Maybe you in your infinite ignorance might venture a guess.

Supermarket prices are being affected more by the corn for ethanol program we have going.

As a food manufacturer though (meat, specifically) I can definitely confirm that people are losing jobs because each person costs more to hire now than a few years ago. It seems like a day doesn't go by without me getting an email about another manufacturer closing a plant or cutting 10% of its work force because of crazy cost increases.

Personally, I think the corn for gas initiative is to blame more than the MW increase, but we definitely had a round of layoffs that were the direct result of our entire workforce costs increasing.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by ashes@work

How about the price of Milk and Eggs.. my god it costs an arm and a leg to make a good breakfast in the morning.

You can have your breakfast for free ashes--if you have Mulder over for it!!!

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by sy2

Supermarket prices are being affected more by the corn for ethanol program we have going.

I'm a bit ignorant on this particular topic and hadn't heard it before--how is the corn for ethanol program increasing Supermarket prices? Certainly I understand products that are made with corn or corn by-products, but how does it effect other products not dependent on corn?

[johnnyburst79]

Originally Posted by Mulderator

I'm a bit ignorant on this particular topic and hadn't heard it before--how is the corn for ethanol program increasing Supermarket prices? Certainly I understand products that are made with corn or corn by-products, but how does it effect other products not dependent on corn?

Governments subsidy corn for fuel much more than for other products and so it is in the farmers best financial interests to grow corn, lessening available farmland for wheat and other produce. Also, this is on a global scale, not just within the US.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by johnnyburst79

Governments subsidy corn for fuel much more than for other products and so it is in the farmers best financial interests to grow corn, lessening available farmland for wheat and other produce. Also, this is on a global scale, not just within the US.

I wasn't aware we had a shortage of farmland for wheat. I am aware of the corn subsidy and fully aware of how useless it is (another stupid politically correct policy to reduce global warming), but I still don't see how that has any significant effect on Supermarket prices other than corn and if you are correct on the farmland, then on wheat or other grains.

[sy2]

Originally Posted by Mulderator

I'm a bit ignorant on this particular topic and hadn't heard it before--how is the corn for ethanol program increasing Supermarket prices? Certainly I understand products that are made with corn or corn by-products, but how does it effect other products not dependent on corn?

In a nutshell, it affects the prices of anything that is fed corn at some point throughout its life cycle. That's the obvious bit. Also, high fructose corn syrup is used in just about everything, so that doesn't help either.

The not so obvious point is that more and more farmers are flocking to cash in on corn, foregoing planting other essential crops, namely wheat and soy. That drop in domestic supply, in conjunction with a bad harvest in Australia (I think it's Australia, I'm not as into the bread/grains side of things), has made grain, wheat, barley, soy, etc... skyrocket.

Another division of my family's company makes bread, and IIRC our raw material costs for the first 3 periods of this fiscal year, compared to last, were 3 times as much on the bread side of the business.