[sglv]

Originally Posted by johnnyburst79

No, I don't.



Looking for a way? Then why don't you tell me Bush's foreign policy on the democratically elected Palestinian government? Did he not laud Palestinians for going to elections and then denouncing them for not picking a pro US government?

In what way is diplomacy counter productive to the process and US interests?

Johnny, aren't you a fan of Ron Paul, stay out of foreign affairs, withdraw all aid the U.S. gives throughout the world? Why would you object to withdrawing aid that funds terrorist acts against our country, as well as countries surrounding it. Why should the U.S. Citizens' tax dollars go to help a foreign government that would love to see all us dead.

As for Jimmy Carter, he's a pacifist. Just because he can visit them and they didn't cut off his head, doesn't mean they're misunderstood and don't want to hurt anyone, or take over their country, or destroy every other government surrounding them, or deny women any rights of humanity and dignity. Jimmy Carter is a great humanitarian, but he isn't going to convince one of them that his message of peace is valid.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Bastiat

You're kidding right? You're not that naive are you? Because I know that you're not that stupid. Carter has now made them a LEGITIMATE government....a terrorist organization gets to demand to sit at the table with legitimate governments. It provides propaganda, it provides self-righteous indignation, it provides a platform for them to spread their hate. Did you read the introduction to the article?

yeah...but that's a different issue....hamas has already lost face....and now they've parlayed with carter about violating one of the tenets of the islamic resistance movement.

seems pretty obvious its a poker game...hamas couldn't have a very strong hand, or they wouldn't be playing so openly with carter.....hard to be legitmate when you've taken refuge outside the country you're supposed to be governing...

your author makes the point that now it'll take longer for the palestinians to favor more peace oriented leaders.....i'd guess what carter is up to is trying to GIVE hamas a single, strong voice....it's always struck me that hamas is a coalition of groups, doing one thing in one place and something else elsewhere.

but i dunno....for a has been, he's been given a helluvalot of influence by his detractors.

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by sglv

Johnny, aren't you a fan of Ron Paul, stay out of foreign affairs, withdraw all aid the U.S. gives throughout the world? Why would you object to withdrawing aid that funds terrorist acts against our country, as well as countries surrounding it. Why should the U.S. Citizens' tax dollars go to help a foreign government that would love to see all us dead.

As for Jimmy Carter, he's a pacifist. Just because he can visit them and they didn't cut off his head, doesn't mean they're misunderstood and don't want to hurt anyone, or take over their country, or destroy every other government surrounding them, or deny women any rights of humanity and dignity. Jimmy Carter is a great humanitarian, but he isn't going to convince one of them that his message of peace is valid.

He got a peace agreement between Eqypt and Israel that still holds. No one else pulled that off!

[sglv]

Originally Posted by bassetman

He got a peace agreement between Eqypt and Israel that still holds. No one else pulled that off!

So, there's something more than Habitat for Humanity under his belt. What did Israel have to give up? I doubt Egypt gave up anything. I wasn't old enough. I find it hard to believe that anything Jimmy Carter does benefits Israel, or Jewish people. I haven't met a Jewish person in my entire life that thinks Jimmy Carter is worth anything to anyone (at least I think he's worth something), or isn't ready to upchuck at the mention of his name.

All I know about Carter is Embassy Hostages, outrageous interest rates, gas lines, cost of goods outrageous (I paid more for a pair of jeans in 1978 than I do now), national self-esteem at an all time low, no jobs, nothing to look forward to. Jimmy Carter gave us (me, ghetto poor) hopelessness with nothing to look forward to. I was 16 when Reagan became President, he gave us hope - kind of like Barak is attempting to do (except I'm not buying it).

[Rep]

Look at the title of this thread people.

Why does the right wing hate so many main stream Americans? And, if this BS continues, how long will it be before the likes of Lan are showing up at your door at three AM demanding that you get in the truck?

No, it is time for us to change this bitterness.

Where are the Republicans? Have they just turned over and allowed this right wing total control of their party name?

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by sglv

So, there's something more than Habitat for Humanity under his belt. What did Israel have to give up? I doubt Egypt gave up anything. I wasn't old enough. I find it hard to believe that anything Jimmy Carter does benefits Israel, or Jewish people. I haven't met a Jewish person in my entire life that thinks Jimmy Carter is worth anything to anyone (at least I think he's worth something), or isn't ready to upchuck at the mention of his name.

All I know about Carter is Embassy Hostages, outrageous interest rates, gas lines, cost of goods outrageous (I paid more for a pair of jeans in 1978 than I do now), national self-esteem at an all time low, no jobs, nothing to look forward to. Jimmy Carter gave us (me, ghetto poor) hopelessness with nothing to look forward to. I was 16 when Reagan became President, he gave us hope - kind of like Barak is attempting to do (except I'm not buying it).

So, obviously you know nothing about it. Edumicate yourself: http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_196...rael_peace.php

Sadat was assininated for making peace. Maybe Israelis are the ones who don't want peace!

Yitzhak Rabin
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For other persons named Rabin, see Rabin (disambiguation).
Yitzhak Rabin
יִצְחָק רַבִּין



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5th Prime Minister of Israel
In office
13 July 1992 – 4 November 1995
Preceded by Yitzhak Shamir
Succeeded by Shimon Peres
In office
3 June 1974 – 22 April 1977
Preceded by Golda Meir
Succeeded by Menachem Begin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Born 1 March 1922(1922-03-01)
Jerusalem, British Mandate of Palestine (now Israel)
Died November 4, 1995 (aged 73)
Tel Aviv, Israel
Political party Alignment, Labor Party
Spouse Leah Rabin
Children Dalia Rabin-Pelossof
Yuval Rabin

Yitzhak Rabin (help·info) (Hebrew: יִצְחָק רַבִּין ‎, 1 March 1922 – 4 November 1995) was an Israeli politician and general. He was the fifth Prime Minister of Israel with two periods in office, from 1974 until 1977 and from 1992 until his assassination in 1995. In 1994 during his second term Rabin won the Nobel Peace Prize together with Shimon Peres and Yasser Arafat, for their efforts towards peace which culminated in the Oslo Accords. He was assassinated by Yigal Amir, a right-wing Israeli radical who had strenuously opposed Rabin's signing of the Oslo Accords. He was the first native-born Prime Minister of Israel, the only Prime Minister to be assassinated and the second to die in office after Levi Eshkol.

....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by Rep

Look at the title of this thread people.

Why does the right wing hate so many main stream Americans? And, if this BS continues, how long will it be before the likes of Lan are showing up at your door at three AM demanding that you get in the truck?

No, it is time for us to change this bitterness.

Where are the Republicans? Have they just turned over and allowed this right wing total control of their party name?

Maybe they're afraid of their own party!

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Rep

Look at the title of this thread people.

Why does the right wing hate so many main stream Americans? And, if this BS continues, how long will it be before the likes of Lan are showing up at your door at three AM demanding that you get in the truck?

No, it is time for us to change this bitterness.

Where are the Republicans? Have they just turned over and allowed this right wing total control of their party name?

I'd rather have him showing up with his truck at 3:00 a.m. then you and your communist Democratic party siezing my bank account and home for the good of the "state." Jesus man, talk about your living nightmare--a massive homogenous society where no one has to work (unless you want to) no one has any goals (because there's nothing to work for), there is no God or right to worship God, there is no moral compass, babies are killed and killers are spared, and everyone is equally poor and misearble. That's liberal Utopia!!!

[sglv]

Originally Posted by Rep

Look at the title of this thread people.

Why does the right wing hate so many main stream Americans? And, if this BS continues, how long will it be before the likes of Lan are showing up at your door at three AM demanding that you get in the truck?

No, it is time for us to change this bitterness.

Where are the Republicans? Have they just turned over and allowed this right wing total control of their party name?

I'm more afraid of Democrats than Republicans. I'm a libertarian Republican. There is so much I disagree with. I look at our Founding Fathers and think, wow, there is no way anyone running for office today would make the sacrafices they made, I wouldn't make them and I know it. Would you?

Bitterness, yeah right. Both parties believe it's my way or the highway. Period. If you don't believe that, I've got a bridge to sell, maybe a country.

I'm disgusted by the far right and the extreme left. Fed up. But guess what, there is no middle. Doesn't exist.

You ask where are the republicans? Where are the democrats? Why do lefties not want to defend our country? Why do they want to tax me to death? Why do they want to sell our country short? It works both ways. I'm poor but I believe in Republican value. You may be rich, but support Democrat values. Who knows. Who cares. There is no middle ground. Neither exist. Nobody cares. You will vote democrat because (I no longer know what they stand for) ... I will vote Republican for what I believe in (but my candidates don't follow that doctrine). You willvote Democrat (but your candidates don't follow your beliefs either). Is there a difference? I don't think so.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by sglv

I'm more afraid of Democrats than Republicans. I'm a libertarian Republican. There is so much I disagree with. I look at our Founding Fathers and think, wow, there is no way anyone running for office today would make the sacrafices they made, I wouldn't make them and I know it. Would you?

Bitterness, yeah right. Both parties believe it's my way or the highway. Period. If you don't believe that, I've got a bridge to sell, maybe a country.

I'm disgusted by the far right and the extreme left. Fed up. But guess what, there is no middle. Doesn't exist.

You ask where are the republicans? Where are the democrats? Why do lefties not want to defend our country? Why do they want to tax me to death? Why do they want to sell our country short? It works both ways. I'm poor but I believe in Republican value. You may be rich, but support Democrat values. Who knows. Who cares. There is no middle ground. Neither exist. Nobody cares. You will vote democrat because (I no longer know what they stand for) ... I will vote Republican for what I believe in (but my candidates don't follow that doctrine). You willvote Democrat (but your candidates don't follow your beliefs either). Is there a difference? I don't think so.

There's a big difference--his rhetoric is self preservation because he's a politician--yours is because you care about American values.

[johnnyburst79]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Yo Johnny---using your logic, the US would have supported Hitler because he 'won an election" Give me a break.

Do you really want to know how many dictators we installed and others we've both trained and equipped? Hmmm, Saddam Hussein comes to mind, the Shah of Iran, Augusto Pinochet of Chile, Golart in Brazil, Noriega in Panama, and many others. We supported all these people who killed millions of people. So it could be assumed that if Hitler were to come to power at a later time we may have supported him. Stop being naive.

Originally Posted by sglv

Johnny, aren't you a fan of Ron Paul, stay out of foreign affairs, withdraw all aid the U.S. gives throughout the world? Why would you object to withdrawing aid that funds terrorist acts against our country, as well as countries surrounding it. Why should the U.S. Citizens' tax dollars go to help a foreign government that would love to see all us dead.

I am, yes. Money should be spent here at home first and foremost. I'm not objecting or saying stay out of foreign affairs, I'm touting diplomacy. Talk to people, is that not what Ron Paul has been saying to do? Instead of ignoring a government which may have different ideals, just talk to them?

[Littlefield]

JiMMa was the worst . Good points by Morton Zuckerman
''Something has gone badly wrong with the always erratic Jimmy Carter. At Camp David, he effected the rapprochement between Anwar Sadat and Menachem Begin that led to real progress. Good work. But then he abandoned the shah of Iran by sending senior American military personnel to restrain the shah's resistance to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's radical uprising in 1979. It was poetic justice that the Islamic revolution and hostage-taking destroyed Carter's chances of a second term, but that's small blessing for us now as we cope with a worldwide Iranian-backed Shiite terrorist regime that is learning how to make nuclear weapons. And who could forget the first Gulf War? This same Jimmy Carter, as an ex-president, urged members of the Security Council to vote against the efforts of President George H. W. Bush and the U.S. and Arab coalition to eject Saddam Hussein from Kuwait.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/opini...my-carter.html

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Littlefield

JiMMa was the worst . Good points by Morton Zuckerman
''Something has gone badly wrong with the always erratic Jimmy Carter. At Camp David, he effected the rapprochement between Anwar Sadat and Menachem Begin that led to real progress. Good work. But then he abandoned the shah of Iran by sending senior American military personnel to restrain the shah's resistance to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's radical uprising in 1979.

that didn't work out too well

And who could forget the first Gulf War? This same Jimmy Carter, as an ex-president, urged members of the Security Council to vote against the efforts of President George H. W. Bush and the U.S. and Arab coalition to eject Saddam Hussein from Kuwait.

i understand all the very practical and important reasons that make this seem like a hairbrained stance....but the truth is also that at some point, the oil game has got to shift gears

the difficulty of course is that to turn our back on mideast oil, we'd better have a PLAN for energy......currently, mideast oil is our plan....

the game is what it is, then

[Littlefield]

Yep if Saudia Arabia was ever taken over you will see how fast our economy would cease to exist.
Carter and Gore link below even held out at first and did not want to stop Hussein in Kuwait .


http://www.gargaro.com/primetimeal.html

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Littlefield

Yep if Saudia Arabia was ever taken over you will see how fast our economy would cease to exist.
Carter and Gore link below even held out at first and did not want to stop Hussein in Kuwait .


http://www.gargaro.com/primetimeal.html

understood, littlefield
my point, tho, is that we've built a room for ourselves in this madhouse....
*sheesh*.....as americans, we've got what it takes to build a door in it, too...tho we currently lack the resolve, it seems, to do more than defend it's walls.....