[iltos]

a little something for both sides in the current trench being dug through CD, even tho this guy is not dead....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html

When Specialist Jeremy Hall held a meeting last July for atheists and freethinkers at Camp Speicher in Iraq, he was excited, he said, to see an officer attending.

But minutes into the talk, the officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, began to berate Specialist Hall and another soldier about atheism, Specialist Hall wrote in a sworn statement. “People like you are not holding up the Constitution and are going against what the founding fathers, who were Christians, wanted for America!” Major Welborn said, according to the statement.

Major Welborn told the soldiers he might bar them from re-enlistment and bring charges against them, according to the statement......

...............At the July meeting, Major Welborn told the soldiers they had disgraced those who had died for the Constitution, Specialist Hall said. When he finished, Major Welborn said, according to the statement: “I love you guys; I just want the best for you. One day you will see the truth and know what I mean.”

as usual with stuff like this, the size of this issue depends on who you're talking to

There are 1.36 million active duty service members, according to the Pentagon, and since 2005, it has received 50 formal complaints of religious discrimination, Ms. Lainez said.

But Mikey Weinstein, a retired Air Force judge advocate general and founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, said the official statistics masked the great number of those who do not report violations for fear of retribution. Since the Air Force Academy scandal began in 2004, Mr. Weinstein said, he has been contacted by more than 5,500 service members and, occasionally, military families about incidents of religious discrimination. He said 96 percent of the complainants were Christians, and the majority of those were Protestants.

Complaints include prayers “in Jesus’ name” at mandatory functions, which violates military regulations, and officers proselytizing subordinates to be “born again.” After getting the complainants’ unit and command information, Mr. Weinstein said, he calls his contacts in the military to try to correct the situation.

“Religion is inextricably intertwined with their jobs,” Mr. Weinstein said. “You’re promoted by who you pray with.”

is he honorable?
does he deserve our respect?
would you trust him?
would you risk your life for him?....for his beliefs?

[valley]

Originally Posted by iltos

a little something for both sides in the current trench being dug through CD, even tho this guy is not dead....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/us/26atheist.html



as usual with stuff like this, the size of this issue depends on who you're talking to



is he honorable?
does he deserve our respect?
would you trust him?
would you risk your life for him?....for his beliefs?

who are you referring to? The Atheist? The guy who berated him or the retired air force judge?

[iltos]

Originally Posted by valley

who are you referring to? The Atheist? The guy who berated him or the retired air force judge?

anybody you want, valley ...i was thinking of the atheist when i wrote it
and on that note, a word to the wise.....the article is about religious beliefs, but this thread just uses that as an example of difference, in keeping with the current polarity here regarding who we respect and why

[poochee]

The atheist:

I would trust him based on his character.

I would risk my life for him as a person, but not his beliefs as I am Christian. They are two separate issues.

[linskyjack]

Ah, the military has been in the business of proselytizing for years. Look what they were doing to non-protestants at the Air Force Academy. It all comes with the territory--God (the officially sanctioned one) and Country.

[Sarge]

I knew a satanist when I was at Campbell. He was a good guy (for those who can believe people who worship satan are "good"). I didnt agree with his form of religion but besides that, he and I got along well. Yes, I would risk my life to save his while in combat.

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I knew a satanist when I was at Campbell. He was a good guy (for those who can believe people who worship satan are "good"). I didnt agree with his form of religion but besides that, he and I got along well. Yes, I would risk my life to save his while in combat.

I was just thinking of this guywhen reading Iltos' question. I read his book and after that type of experience, I think his guys would trust him regardless of what religion, or what choice of non-religion, he was.

I think this thread can be marked solved.

[valis]

Originally Posted by iltos

is he honorable?
does he deserve our respect?
would you trust him?
would you risk your life for him?....for his beliefs?

hell yes. His 'beliefs' don't come into the equation here. He is willing to sacrifice his life for my family and my freedom.

Damn right I respect him. Matter of fact, the way I see it, if you are old enough to go die for your country, then I ought to be able to buy you a beer somewhere.

can't do that, though; corrupting the young 'uns and all.......

[Farmgirl22]

Originally Posted by iltos

is he honorable?
does he deserve our respect?
would you trust him?
would you risk your life for him?....for his beliefs?

What would make anyone think he isn't honorable?

Yes, anyone who works to save our country deserves respect until they prove unworthy. His religious beliefs don't count as a reason to make him unworthy--raping the natives, torturing children, hoarding animals he couldn't care for, etc....THOSE things would make him unworthy.

I am trusting him aren't I? Him and many others with him?

I would risk my life for him and his beliefs, just as he is doing for me. Isn't that the only way to be?

[NICK G]

18 months in combat and not once did I ask the guy on my right or left flank if they
believed in God or not. I didn't really give a crap as I was way too busy trying to cover
their and my own butt from others who probably believed in something but were trying
to kill us and, we, them. Go figure, huh? Trust and respect and honor? You bet your sweet
bippy. Many times I heard more crying for their momma's than God.
No atheists in foxholes? I wouldn't bet on it.
I guess you had to be there.