[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by SlackAli

Lighten up, was a joke. No need to get defensive, you're amongst friends.

I realise you won't be able to reply now your lunchbreak's finished

I knew that you were joking, and I took no offense. I was smiling the whole time I was replying.

Sorry it didn't come off that way.

Take care

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

When that happens, and I don't deny that it does, the upper management needs to take action against those poor managers who, hopefully, arent protected by a union.

That is my point in a nutshell, and few companies take better care of their loyal senior employees than Wal-Mart. I know this for a fact. I am at the WM home office at least twice a week. I talk to all levels of the company.

To your first point , of course upper management should take action against poor managers , but many times , that is not the way it works . And then who takes action against upper management if they are culprits ?.
I have worked for several Unions for many years , I know what goes on --all of it --on both sides of fence . I could tell horror stories about business but hesitate to, because it might appear I hate business , not the case !. Some of my home Union's relationships with our organized companies are very good , more partnerships than adversarial .
I could also tell some Union horror stories -- but can not . You would use them in your simplistic black and white arguments .
And then there are Companies that make the effort --treat employees as human beings -- hold management to high standards , and even ........share their financial success with workers !. I don't have to point out that they will never be Unionized .
A true story ---- back in 1997 , I was working a organization effort , and found out from people about another company {a small one - maybe 50 employees } in the city that had some terrible managers {2}. Abusive , ect . One of the people in our campaign had friends who worked there .


I was told that it would nice if we could organize them too , a wish by one we were working with --not something we intended to do .
So , myself and and another organizer paid them a visit one afternoon , stood at gate and passed out Union material to any car that stopped --all afternoon, hot and raining --but worth it !.
To make long story short , we learned later that that company held employee meetings --and fired the supervisors ! A little dose of fear, and their "consciences" kicked in ! .

To your second point , in some business it is cheaper to have high turnover , part-time , or even better ,temp employees .
2 20hr employees cheaper than a fulltimer.
Walmart is moving in that direction , but to be fair , so are others .
Walmart has approx 25% part-time , and is moving to 40%.
Turning long time full time employees into part-timers .
More too it than that , but thats a trend .
N.Y times article below , at least some of it . >f
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wal-Mart to Add Wage Caps and Part-Timers
Wal-Mart vigorously denies it is pushing out longtime or full-time employees and says its moves will ensure its competitiveness. The company says it gives employees three weeks’ notice of their schedules and takes their preferences into account, but that description differs from those of many workers interviewed. Workers said that their preferences were often ignored and that they were often given only a few days’ notice of scheduling changes.

These moves have been unfolding in the year since Wal-Mart’s top human resources official sent the company’s board a confidential memo stating, with evident concern, that experienced employees were paid considerably more than workers with just one year on the job, while being no more productive. The memo, disclosed by The New York Times in October 2005, also recommended hiring healthier workers and more part-time workers because they were less likely to enroll in Wal-Mart’s health plan.

Wal-Mart workers say the changes are further reducing their already modest incomes and putting a serious strain on their child-rearing and personal lives. Current and former Wal-Mart workers say some managers have insisted that they make themselves available around the clock, and assert that the company is making changes with an eye to forcing out longtime higher-wage workers to make way for lower-wage part-time employees.

These moves have been unfolding in the year since Wal-Mart’s top human resources official sent the company’s board a confidential memo stating, with evident concern, that experienced employees were paid considerably more than workers with just one year on the job, while being no more productive. The memo, disclosed by The New York Times in October 2005, also recommended hiring healthier workers and more part-time workers because they were less likely to enroll in Wal-Mart’s health plan.

Human resources experts have long said that companies benefit most from having experienced workers. Yet Wal-Mart officials say the efficiencies they gain will outweigh the effects of having what labor experts say would be a less experienced, less stable, lower-paid work force.

The adoption of wage caps has also been difficult for many workers to swallow. Workers will never receive annual raises if their pay is at or above the cap.

No matter how hard people work, “we won’t get anything else out of it,” said Mr. Gonzalez, who earns $11.18 an hour, or about $23,000 a year, after six years with Wal-Mart. “The message is, if I don’t like it, there is the door. They are trying to hit people who have the most experience so they can leave.”

In the confidential memo sent to Wal-Mart’s board last year, M. Susan Chambers, who was recently promoted to be Wal-Mart’s executive vice president in charge of human resources, questioned whether it was cost-efficient to employ longtime workers. “Given the impact of tenure on wages and benefits,” she wrote, “the cost of an associate with 7 years of tenure is almost 55 percent more than the cost of an associate with 1 year of tenure, yet there is no difference in his or her productivity.”

The memo said, “the shift to more part-time associates will lower Wal-Mart’s health-care enrollment” even though Wal-Mart was reducing the amount of time to one year, from two, that part-time workers would have to wait to qualify for health insurance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/02/bu...=1&oref=slogin

[Gibble]

Originally Posted by Stoner

As much as I harp on Lanmaster about using bogus bloggers, I would have thought some of the other members would have caught on.

Canada doesn't look in such great shape either:
http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/hip/lld/nl.../10_fact.shtml

excerpt>


But go back to the source the blog site was referencing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/25/op...25krugman.html
Here's the real issue in the last lines.............it's an argument for socialism:

It's one less major issue Toyota would have to face in Canada with the unions there....the Canadian tax payer picks up the tab on health coverage, not Toyota.

We still have benefits on top of our healthcare that are often part of compensation employees receive. And, Toyota still pays for it, they pay taxes too, just like the rest of us.

[Gibble]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Unions had their place 50 years ago. There's absolutely NOTHING that today's union can provide that existing legislation won't take care of.

...I was going to say pricing yourself out of employment, but recent min wage increases probably cost a few jobs too!

[SlackAli]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

I knew that you were joking, and I took no offense. I was smiling the whole time I was replying.

Sorry it didn't come off that way.

Take care

Fault's mine - I think I had my literalist hat on last night, with suspended appreciation of irony

I know you rarely take exception to my feeble jokes

[Bastiat]

Originally Posted by SlackAli

Fault's mine - I think I had my literalist hat on last night, with suspended appreciation of irony

I know you rarely take exception to my feeble jokes

Yes, suspending you by your irony sounds like a reasonable punishment.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by SlackAli

Fault's mine - I think I had my literalist hat on last night, with suspended appreciation of irony

I know you rarely take exception to my feeble jokes

all good, Slack.