[Farmgirl22]

I'm having some trouble wrapping my mind around something, and I thought maybe it could spark a debate and some interest if I posted it here.

Small towns everywhere seem to suffering from the same delimma...the young people have nothing to hold them and they move away--thus impacting the community as a whole in a negative way. Now I have to ask because I simply don't understand...WHY do the older generation have the gall to WHINE about that, yet don't have the bollocks to DO anything to help the situation?

I'm talking selling houses cheaper to young couples (with or without children), local tax breaks to them to help promote staying, maybe even a community fund for helping with utilities and stuff--I'm not saying give our starting-out-families a life on a silver platter--just a bit of a kick start for the world. Some of this stuff would be SO easy to do.

**Fixing up grandma's old house (minor stuff) and selling it a bit cheaper (because generally the owner doesn't OWE anything on it and it doesn't owe them anything) to a younger couple would go a long way to helping keep those small communities alive.

**People donate money to church and charity causes all the time, what's wrong with making a small charitable donation (via an organization) to a local family in need? I think that people really feel better about giving their money to a charity that they can really SEE the difference--however, on the flip side, there's also the concern of people feeling smug because they are better off than others...but there are just people who are asshats like that no matter where you go.

**Local tax breaks--they don't have to be major, or even permanent. Just a few years to get young families off to a good start.

Simple stuff like that could go a long way to helping smaller communities keep their young people, and help the local economy flourish. Are we letting stubborn pride get in the way? Or is it greed?

Throughout history, different cultures had different ways of helping young couples get started, and those same young people didn't grow dependent upon those things and get lazy--so what changed that tradition? I've always thought that a house that doesn't have any leins on it should be sold at a slightly lower price to young couples just starting out...I plan to do it myself someday, because I think it's the right thing to do. Why isn't anyone else willing to put their money where their mouth is?

[Stoner]

Generally....people move to where the jobs are........they don't move to where jobs aren't.

[Farmgirl22]

Originally Posted by Stoner

Generally....people move to where the jobs are........they don't move to where jobs aren't.

Not every smaller town has a lack of jobs...sometimes it's exactly the opposite. Where we live now there is a shortage of people to work...it DOES happen, but when communities aren't working to make their place a viable option for the younger generation, those younger people go elsewhere in an attempt to find a place that does.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

I'm having some trouble wrapping my mind around something, and I thought maybe it could spark a debate and some interest if I posted it here.

Small towns everywhere seem to suffering from the same delimma...the young people have nothing to hold them and they move away--thus impacting the community as a whole in a negative way. Now I have to ask because I simply don't understand...WHY do the older generation have the gall to WHINE about that, yet don't have the bollocks to DO anything to help the situation?

I'm talking selling houses cheaper to young couples (with or without children), local tax breaks to them to help promote staying, maybe even a community fund for helping with utilities and stuff--I'm not saying give our starting-out-families a life on a silver platter--just a bit of a kick start for the world. Some of this stuff would be SO easy to do.

**Fixing up grandma's old house (minor stuff) and selling it a bit cheaper (because generally the owner doesn't OWE anything on it and it doesn't owe them anything) to a younger couple would go a long way to helping keep those small communities alive.

**People donate money to church and charity causes all the time, what's wrong with making a small charitable donation (via an organization) to a local family in need? I think that people really feel better about giving their money to a charity that they can really SEE the difference--however, on the flip side, there's also the concern of people feeling smug because they are better off than others...but there are just people who are asshats like that no matter where you go.

**Local tax breaks--they don't have to be major, or even permanent. Just a few years to get young families off to a good start.

Simple stuff like that could go a long way to helping smaller communities keep their young people, and help the local economy flourish. Are we letting stubborn pride get in the way? Or is it greed?

Throughout history, different cultures had different ways of helping young couples get started, and those same young people didn't grow dependent upon those things and get lazy--so what changed that tradition? I've always thought that a house that doesn't have any leins on it should be sold at a slightly lower price to young couples just starting out...I plan to do it myself someday, because I think it's the right thing to do. Why isn't anyone else willing to put their money where their mouth is?

It took me growing up in the big city of New York to learn that I dont ever want to live in a big city again.

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

I'm having some trouble wrapping my mind around something, and I thought maybe it could spark a debate and some interest if I posted it here.

Small towns everywhere seem to suffering from the same delimma...the young people have nothing to hold them and they move away--thus impacting the community as a whole in a negative way. Now I have to ask because I simply don't understand...WHY do the older generation have the gall to WHINE about that, yet don't have the bollocks to DO anything to help the situation?

Part of this could be because they are no longer wager earners. Also, they are less mobile....or able to go and find a new location and start over like the young. Many are on fixed incomes, and yes...their worlds narrow, and they have strong opinions, some of them....but hey, I am one that has always considered their message as one of earned respect as they have been often where I have yet to go.
I am sure they have many complaints about us young whippersnappers that we will eventually adopt.......Hey wait...I am almost there....I am soon to be one of them....

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

I'm talking selling houses cheaper to young couples (with or without children), local tax breaks to them to help promote staying, maybe even a community fund for helping with utilities and stuff--I'm not saying give our starting-out-families a life on a silver platter--just a bit of a kick start for the world. Some of this stuff would be SO easy to do.

I have seen many families do this with their relations, and a few with friends. Everyone can't afford to do this.
As for the kick-start.....many of us go through the kick-start phase of things for a long time.
How would you suggest kick-starting a family? The world is an incredibly tough place. People need to inform themselves about life before they undertake the dance with the gorilla...........we just don't follow the cues or take the lessons til they become a problem......some people are better equipped at decision making and planning, and it might seem they are having a smooth go at it, but they're usually working their butts off and making good decisions if successful at all...

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

**Fixing up grandma's old house (minor stuff) and selling it a bit cheaper (because generally the owner doesn't OWE anything on it and it doesn't owe them anything) to a younger couple would go a long way to helping keep those small communities alive.

A lot of this is done in families. But it is not a minor thing. Calling it minor trivializes it.

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

**People donate money to church and charity causes all the time, what's wrong with making a small charitable donation (via an organization) to a local family in need? I think that people really feel better about giving their money to a charity that they can really SEE the difference--however, on the flip side, there's also the concern of people feeling smug because they are better off than others...but there are just people who are asshats like that no matter where you go.

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

**Local tax breaks--they don't have to be major, or even permanent. Just a few years to get young families off to a good start.

The old people don't usually run the tax thing, and are just as overtaxed as younger upstarts. So that is an issue of a different kind.


.

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

**People donate money to church and charity causes all the time, what's wrong with making a small charitable donation (via an organization) to a local family in need? I think that people really feel better about giving their money to a charity that they can really SEE the difference--however, on the flip side, there's also the concern of people feeling smug because they are better off than others...but there are just people who are asshats like that no matter where you go.

A lot of people I know donate to local food banks and womans shelters, and homeless shelters....and give their time volunteering to the needy people in various ways.
And the churches I'm aware of are very effective at manifesting their goals with donations.
Maybe the ones in your area aren't.

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

Throughout history, different cultures had different ways of helping young couples get started, and those same young people didn't grow dependent upon those things and get lazy--so what changed that tradition? I've always thought that a house that doesn't have any leins on it should be sold at a slightly lower price to young couples just starting out...I plan to do it myself someday, because I think it's the right thing to do. Why isn't anyone else willing to put their money where their mouth is?

I just want to ask you how you are putting your money where your mouth is? I don't say that to be mean. You are complaining about what everyone else doesn't do. What do you do to alleviate the problem you see? Not in the future...but now.
These are not the first generation to be struggling in the dirt. My dads era survived a depression. Much of the world is starving and living way further down the ladder than us??
The truth is we could all be eating out of scavaged cans of food at any time. It is arrogant to think that we have anymore coming than what is in front of us without hard work.


Also could you give examples of the traditions you are talking about???

[Laura87]

Sorry Farmgirl I don't agree - I've worked my butt off to keep my house, the taxes here are crazy. I've worked equally as hard at my job to move up, I do this for my kids, I'm divorced and had to make some tough choices.


Work hard and be where you can succeed - I hate hand outs , just do what you have to do. It's up to you.

[Farmgirl22]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Part of this could be because they are no longer wager earners. Also, they are less mobile....or able to go and find a new location and start over like the young. Many are on fixed incomes, and yes...their worlds narrow, and they have strong opinions, some of them....but hey, I am one that has always considered their message as one of earned respect as they have been often where I have yet to go.
I am sure they have many complaints about us young whippersnappers that we will eventually adopt.......Hey wait...I am almost there....I am soon to be one of them....

I wasn't trying to undermine them or be disrespectful...It just bothers me when people complain about something that they could change, but aren't willing to do anything about it.

I have seen many families do this with their relations, and a few with friends. Everyone can't afford to do this.
As for the kick-start.....many of us go through the kick-start phase of things for a long time.
How would you suggest kick-starting a family? The world is an incredibly tough place. People need to inform themselves about life before they undertake the dance with the gorilla...........we just don't follow the cues or take the lessons til they become a problem......some people are better equipped at decision making and planning, and it might seem they are having a smooth go at it, but they're usually working their butts off and making good decisions if successful at all...

LOL! It's true that some people require more of a kickstart than others, I can think of a few of those I know personally. I also am aware that people can't always afford to do the cheaper house thing--but here's an example of something like what I'm talking about.

X wants to by an 80 of land that belonged to his grandmother. He makes a reasonable offer on the land, and his other relatives go and ask a professional what the land is worth--that professional gives an estimate based on hunting (which isn't feasible on tilled land that has no trees/water/etc.) and the family sadly informs X that they "can't take that kind of loss"....WTH??! They didn't owe anything on it, so they wouldn't have been taking "a loss". THAT is the mentality that I don't understand. Maybe it's just me...*shrug*

A lot of this is done in families. But it is not a minor thing. Calling it minor trivializes it.

I think you misinterpreted what I meant when I said "minor"...I meant do minor REPAIRS...you know, make sure that the heater is tuned up, check for roof leaks, make sure that the house is insurable before attempting to sell it, that sort of thing.

I know how difficult it can be to sell all those memories...however, I know that we sold my great-grandma's house for less than half it's value to a young couple that needed it--she would have wanted that, and so we did it. I think it would be more like honoring the memory.

The old people don't usually run the tax thing, and are just as overtaxed as younger upstarts. So that is an issue of a different kind.

The old people vote don't they? Don't their votes count? Aren't they important in their communities? I realize that they aren't solely in charge of changing laws, but they CAN help to make a difference.

A lot of people I know donate to local food banks and womans shelters, and homeless shelters....and give their time volunteering to the needy people in various ways.
And the churches I'm aware of are very effective at manifesting their goals with donations.
Maybe the ones in your area aren't.

The church in my new area takes care of it's own, but it will not even let it's parishioner's sell their property to someone outside of "the church". I'm not changing my religion just to fit in here....

I just want to ask you how you are putting your money where your mouth is? I don't say that to be mean. You are complaining about what everyone else doesn't do. What do you do to alleviate the problem you see? Not in the future...but now.
These are not the first generation to be struggling in the dirt. My dads era survived a depression. Much of the world is starving and living way further down the ladder than us??
The truth is we could all be eating out of scavaged cans of food at any time. It is arrogant to think that we have anymore coming than what is in front of us without hard work.

Actually, we DO donate money...I donate to the vets every year, we donate to our church when we can, and I've done a good amount of community service. My family DOES practice what we preach. We actually prefer community service, because sweat is something we have an excess of, even though money isn't. We also used to visit the nursing home with the munchkin--older people really get a kick out of that...so many of them are ignored by their family as soon as they move into a home. I've had my share of annoyances with older people, but that doesn't mean that I think their family should abandon them or anything like that. We haven't done that here yet, because we really haven't had as much time with everything else that's going on. I suppose that would make me a hypocrite to some?

Also could you give examples of the traditions you are talking about???

Sure! None of my formatting stuff is working because of the software updates (or at least I'm guessing that is what it is.) so you'll have to copy paste the address. Sorry about that!

Dowries were a type of traditional method to help young couples start out--in many cases it involved estates (or at least a modest house), money, livestock, etc. I was under the impression that what we currently call "wedding gifts" were intended to replace that...however, I was corrected. That's where the PM comes in. See below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry

I also have something else, I'll PM you with--just in case it's not supposed to be seen by absolutely everyone that uses Google. I hope that's OK with you.

[Farmgirl22]

Originally Posted by Laura87

Sorry Farmgirl I don't agree - I've worked my butt off to keep my house, the taxes here are crazy. I've worked equally as hard at my job to move up, I do this for my kids, I'm divorced and had to make some tough choices.


Work hard and be where you can succeed - I hate hand outs , just do what you have to do. It's up to you.

I'm not trying to undermine your success...I was merely trying to come up with a solution to a worn out problem that I'm getting tired of hearing about.

I'm not a big fan of handouts either...I guess that's not really what I was wanting this to be. Offering a helping hand to someone that needs it and that benefits the community as a whole isn't the same as a handout. Or at least not the way I'm thinking of handout...I think of a handout as something like welfare--it really doesn't have an ending point, and it doesn't really improve the local economy/community...

This is just a temporary helping hand to not only help a young couple get started but to also help benefit the community--that's a win-win that also has an ending point.

[ekim68]

You also have to take into consideration what makes a small town. And how it should continue...I grew up in a town that the Santa Fe Railroad kind of created...
For a long time the jobs were there on the railroad and the town was prosperous.
After a while the railroad didn't need so many people, for a number of reasons, and the main consumer capital in the town dwindled.. Where I live now, towns around here grew up with cutting down trees...Eventually they couldn't sustain the jobs to keep it going and they became, more or less, ghost towns. So, sometimes it's hard to keep the kids home because of the local economy..

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

The old people vote don't they? Don't their votes count? Aren't they important in their communities? I realize that they aren't solely in charge of changing laws, but they CAN help to make a difference.

My point was that you lumped the tax thing in with the old people thing....You are saying so many different things on the heels of "why don't the old people" that separating it is awkward.

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

The church in my new area takes care of it's own, but it will not even let it's parishioner's sell their property to someone outside of "the church". I'm not changing my religion just to fit in here....

Some churches are like that.....that too is not an old people complaint.

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

Actually, we DO donate money...I donate to the vets every year, we donate to our church when we can, and I've done a good amount of community service. My family DOES practice what we preach. We actually prefer community service, because sweat is something we have an excess of, even though money isn't. We also used to visit the nursing home with the munchkin--older people really get a kick out of that...so many of them are ignored by their family as soon as they move into a home. I've had my share of annoyances with older people, but that doesn't mean that I think their family should abandon them or anything like that. We haven't done that here yet, because we really haven't had as much time with everything else that's going on. I suppose that would make me a hypocrite to some?

I was talking about the setting up of community resources for families starting out. You are complaining that the old people are stingy and stuff like that. Are your wheels in motion to remedy this? Why is it always up to someone else? If you see a problem, and there is no relief in sight....guess what?...you're it.
The problem then becomes how to get things organized to resolve it. That takes
time, money, creativity, talent and extreme effort. I know people that have worked in community organizing solving all sorts of problems.
It is not a thing that you can guilt trip people into (although I do know one silver tongued shaker and mover that did use this tactic well), and even the best of ideas and intentions get off track, or corrupted.....or change from the original aim, or die away.....even if implemented well from their inception.

[Gabriel]

And about the old people complaining.....Sheesh, Farmgirl..........you are complaining about them.

[poochee]

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

The church in my new area takes care of it's own, but it will not even let it's parishioner's sell their property to someone outside of "the church". I'm not changing my religion just to fit in here....

This is a new one one me. Curious, what denomination is that church?

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by Laura87

Sorry Farmgirl I don't agree - I've worked my butt off to keep my house, the taxes here are crazy. I've worked equally as hard at my job to move up, I do this for my kids, I'm divorced and had to make some tough choices.


Work hard and be where you can succeed - I hate hand outs , just do what you have to do. It's up to you.

This is the practical side of the equation most people see.....choosing the best lifestyle for their family.
The key is.... what is affordable living in a particular environment.
Generally, small towns are simply limited to opportunities and many of the youth there are going to search out the opportunities that wind up existing elsewhere.

[valley]

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

The church in my new area takes care of it's own, but it will not even let it's parishioner's sell their property to someone outside of "the church". I'm not changing my religion just to fit in here....

Originally Posted by poochee

This is a new one one me. Curious, what denomination is that church?

Yeah, that sent up a red flag to me too.

Our church is small but they have a thrift shop set up and operated by volunteers and the money they make goes to ANYONE in the community who needs help financially. They dont have to be members at all. Every church should have a ministry that caters to the community as a whole, regardless of denomination.

I would steer very clear of any church that told me that I could only sell my house to someone else in the church! With the economy the way that it is? Are they insane?

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

.........................

X wants to by an 80 of land that belonged to his grandmother. He makes a reasonable offer on the land, and his other relatives go and ask a professional what the land is worth--that professional gives an estimate based on hunting (which isn't feasible on tilled land that has no trees/water/etc.) and the family sadly informs X that they "can't take that kind of loss"....WTH??! They didn't owe anything on it, so they wouldn't have been taking "a loss". THAT is the mentality that I don't understand. Maybe it's just me...*shrug*

...............................

That scenario has several flaws.
First, that professional isn't, or he wouldn't have given a grossly flawed evaluation of the land.
Second, selling to a profit/loss is not directly dependent on how much is still owed.

What you described is more of an issue of keeping land within generations of a family.
That's a personal consideration.
Too many possible issues to comment on other than it's the owner's choice to dispose of the property as they see fit.

But that is really an issue of family farms, not small towns.
In Ohio, family farms are slowly dying out from several issues.....super farms expanding, the economic viability of small farms, and better opportunities for employment elsewhere.