[imrippinit]

Originally Posted by Wino

You need to get out of the monastery more often cause you haven't a clue about history or oil or energy.

Not sure what part of Texas you're in, but in my area we have coal, natural gas, fuel oil power plants and building another coal fired plant. We own 25% of the South Texas Nuclear plant and they are preparing for another unit to be built. We have also invested heavily in West Texas wind power, which is growing monthly.

In regards to gasoline / oil prices..................when numbnuts Bush came into office gasoline was $1.50/gal and a barrel of oil around $25. Then crap for brains decided he needed to avenge daddy, had a cakewalk in Iraq and a war that would make him legend in his own time..........he slightly miscalculated. So. what's the price for gasoline and oil today? Say, Thank you Mr. Bush. All the drilling in the world isn't going to change a damn thing cause it is not a supply and demand problem.............it's a terrible economy brought on by a man who is so vacuous and shallow he has no peers. The dollar is in the sewer, energy cost are causing everything to skyrocket in price. You can blame China, India, Brazil or whomever floats your boat, but the real problem is and has been the administration of George W. Bush.

Had Ronald Reagan not dumped everything that Carter started for alternative fuels (also blame the American people for allowing him to do it) we would be 30 years ahead of the game. Carter said, and I paraphrase, that the energy crisis was the moral equivalent of war.....................and no body listened.

As for Nixon.........he WAS a crook. As for Vietnam, the domino effect never came to being, they won and we won, and the world is a better place for it................like Iraq, it should never have happened. Our relationship today with Vietnam makes me wonder why you rightwing nuts don't drop the stupid embargo on Cuba before China takes their suspected GOM oil fields.

Revising history is not your forte. Stick with religion.

Typical liberal trying to use the diversionary tactics of name calling and subterfuge to persist in lies.

Liberal, how do you like paying $4 a gallon in gas? Oh, you probably don't because you drive a solar powered car.

Oh and food costs. Can those actually rise because of an increase of world demand for oil? YES! Oh my. How stupid are the liberals?

Guess we need to drill for oil. Duh!!!

[Wino]

Originally Posted by imrippinit

Typical liberal trying to use the diversionary tactics of name calling and subterfuge to persist in lies.

Liberal, how do you like paying $4 a gallon in gas? Oh, you probably don't because you drive a solar powered car.

Oh and food costs. Can those actually rise because of an increase of world demand for oil? YES! Oh my. How stupid are the liberals?

Guess we need to drill for oil. Duh!!!

You are absolutely, beyond doubt, clueless.

I hate paying $4/gal for gas......and i know whose fault it is......I light incense every day for Mr. Bush and thank Thor for bringing him to the altar..

BTW, Blazer 4x4 and F150.............I would take a Prius if some one gave it to me free of charge and I didn't have to pay taxes on it.

Tree huggers and environmentalist can freeze to death in the dark for all I care. Nor do I care where we drill for oil.

Yes, there is a worldwide greater demand for oil, not arguing that point, but there is NO shortage of crude nor finished product. Never has been, now or in the past.

BTW, you cannot disprove anything I said in my first post can you?

[Hughv]

There is no responsible historian anywhere who thinks:
We won.
That it was worth fighting
That there was honor brought to anyone involved.

This was a another war based on lies(Tonkin) perpetuated by bureaucrats who knew better (McNamara, Kissinger) and brought disgrace to the entire UIS Military who failed in their duty to properly advise the president.
This war was was stopped by the American Public who refused to support the longest war in US History that had no advantage to us in any way, shape or form. 58000 dead Americans, billions down the drain, a deeply divided country and a lost war from which we've apparently learned nothing.
I'm sure you're heading down to enlist today, but if you, or your children aren't ready to join up, I don't see where anything you say is worth hearing.
Your attempt to place blame on the democrats, or any single group is pathetic, and typical of the partisan crap spewed by the right wing.
Your narrow mind can't grasp the concept that sometimes it's right to protest the actions of an incompetent and irresponsible government, regardless of party affiliation.
Are you better off than you were 8 years ago? Has the "Strong on Defense" republican party caught OBL, or done anything tangible to prevent the next terrorist attack?
The answer is no.The terrorists are stronger than ever, we have a nearly broken military, a budget in shambles, and we're rapidly heading for third world status unless someone with vision starts leading.

[bill.aam]

Originally Posted by Hughv

I'm sure you're heading down to enlist today, but if you, or your children aren't ready to join up, I don't see where anything you say is worth hearing.

Why is it that you and linskyjack think, that if you didn't serve in the military, than what they have to say about the military or war is not worth hearing? I'm sure you have told the same to Sen Obama, Yes?

Bill
MSgt USAF (Ret)

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Rep

The nation clearly needs a new direction..

before we even talk about new, we have to figure out what direction we're headed right now...seems to me that to do that we have to stop assuming one side or the other has got it right...

imo, both ends of the political spectrum are talking about the same thing....the core values that this country was founded upon

the preservation of the opprotunities, freedoms, and responsibilities of the individual
the role of the government in providing an economic and legal framework to assure those rights

the difference in direction seems to me to be centered around whether those values should be looked at americ-centrically or globally.....our role as "leaders of the free world" is not just determined by the reflection of those values in our foriegn policy....it is incumbent on our domestic policy, as well....

and there's a parallel between the two....domestically, conservatives don't seem to be able to decide whether individual opprotunities, freedoms, and responsibilites, and their economic and legal definitions, apply equally to everyone in society, or are instead built around some idea of religious morality that supercedes individual choice....the issue then is one of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, in spite of our perceptions of morality....liberals have a different view of "an america morality", one that seems determined to put the price tag of social responsibility on the legal and economic benefits of freedom, to insure that there is not a dispossessed segment of our society.

both are noble goals....neither is perfect, nor achievable, imo

ironically, in my view, both of these directions come from the same source -christainty- and both of them are reflected in the two political party's view of foreign politcy

that fact that one has become a "neo-con" agenda and the other a "socialist" agenda might point to how little we understand the bible.....or how little we respect it.....and both of these, imo, includes as many christains that liberals go on about ("evangelical moral hypocrites"), as liberals that christains go on about ("godless neo-facists")

it certainly points out how little we trust each other, and how much we've come to depend on government ("authority") to pull us through.

[Hughv]

Originally Posted by bill.aam

Why is it that you and linskyjack think, that if you didn't serve in the military, than what they have to say about the military or war is not worth hearing? I'm sure you have told the same to Sen Obama, Yes?

Bill
MSgt USAF (Ret)

Senator Obama is not trying to tell me that we won Vietnam, or that we should be in iraq.
I suspect that the people who think these things are probably deeply ignorant and ill educated, but a little time in the service would give them the perspective that's so sadly missing from their lives.
There's nothing like dodging bullets, or burying your men to give you a perspective on war people die. It's permanent. There better be a damn good reason for it, or you're just another murderer.

[imrippinit]

Originally Posted by Wino

You are absolutely, beyond doubt, clueless.

I hate paying $4/gal for gas......and i know whose fault it is......I light incense every day for Mr. Bush and thank Thor for bringing him to the altar..

Some fall hook line and sinker.

Maybe you should get your ear out of the toilet, stop listening to those who brought us the situation, and listen to the economist who are all singing the same tune. World demand has increased exponentially and that has caused oil prices to climb.

Hmmmm.

So the Chinese are drilling 50 miles off of the coast of Florida and the dems in congress have forbidden domestic companies???

Yep. So what happens as the oil in those areas (to which we have rights) are depleted? Yep. Its gone.

So, if the technology exists to drill cleanly why wouldn't we. Its a pretty simple question for starters.

BTW, bush has tried umpteen times since elected to pass energy bills to expand domestic production in a clean way, but guess who keeps stonewalling, first filibustering and now denying votes??? That's right, the dems.

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by imrippinit

...
So the Chinese are drilling 50 miles off of the coast of Florida and the dems in congress have forbidden domestic companies???

Yep. So what happens as the oil in those areas (to which we have rights) are depleted? Yep. Its gone.
....................

Bret....Cheney corrected himself on that:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...7O8vAD91906B80

But it does look like it could happen.
I agree with you, open up the restricted areas.

[Wino]

Originally Posted by imrippinit

Some fall hook line and sinker.

Maybe you should get your ear out of the toilet, stop listening to those who brought us the situation, and listen to the economist who are all singing the same tune. World demand has increased exponentially and that has caused oil prices to climb.

Hmmmm.

So the Chinese are drilling 50 miles off of the coast of Florida and the dems in congress have forbidden domestic companies???

Yep. So what happens as the oil in those areas (to which we have rights) are depleted? Yep. Its gone.

So, if the technology exists to drill cleanly why wouldn't we. Its a pretty simple question for starters.

BTW, bush has tried umpteen times since elected to pass energy bills to expand domestic production in a clean way, but guess who keeps stonewalling, first filibustering and now denying votes??? That's right, the dems.

You're so ridiculous it's pathetic. Hang on to your to your illusions. Bush hasn't done anything but drive this country into the ground. He has no 'energy' policy, never has.

[imrippinit]

Originally Posted by Stoner

Bret....Cheney corrected himself on that:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...7O8vAD91906B80

But it does look like it could happen.
I agree with you, open up the restricted areas.

Apparently,

Excerpt:
He cited his source as columnist George Will, who last week wrote: "Drilling is under way 60 miles off Florida. The drilling is being done by China, in cooperation with Cuba, which is drilling closer to South Florida than U.S. companies are."
...

Cheney's office said in a statement to The Associated Press that the vice president had erred.

"It is our understanding that, although Cuba has leased out exploration blocks 60 miles off the coast of southern Florida, which is closer than American firms are allowed to operate in that area, no Chinese firm is drilling there," according to the statement.

Cuba clearly is interested in developing its deep-water oil resources, estimated at more than 5 billion barrel, including areas within 60 miles of Key West, Fla., energy experts said.

Slant drilling is a modern reality.

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by Wino

.................Bush hasn't done anything but drive this country into the ground. He has no 'energy' policy, never has.

Not quite correct about an energy policy, but I don't think he gets any kudos for thinking up the idea of converting food to fuel.

This country needs not just an alternative source that's cheaper, it need a replacement to meet the growing needs of the future that oil will not provide.
No one in either party is addressing the needs of ~2050 where the US population has been projected to be 3 times larger than today.

[imrippinit]

Originally Posted by Wino

You're so ridiculous it's pathetic. Hang on to your to your illusions. Bush hasn't done anything but drive this country into the ground. He has no 'energy' policy, never has.

There really are quite a few results on Bush energy proposals. Here are a few:


Bush urges more refineries, nuclear plants

What the President Got Right

Bush says Democrats are blocking energy proposals

[imrippinit]

Originally Posted by Stoner

Not quite correct about an energy policy, but I don't think he gets any kudos for thinking up the idea of converting food to fuel.

This country needs not just an alternative source that's cheaper, it need a replacement to meet the growing needs of the future that oil will not provide.
No one in either party is addressing the needs of ~2050 where the US population has been projected to be 3 times larger than today.

I agree 100%. I think the food to fuel thing has had lost of support from the center to as far left as Gore and Obama.

[imrippinit]

Originally Posted by Stoner

Not quite correct about an energy policy, but I don't think he gets any kudos for thinking up the idea of converting food to fuel.

Al Gore:
"I was also proud to stand up for the ethanol tax exemption when it was under attack in the Congress -- at one point, supplying a tie-breaking vote in the Senate to save it. The more we can make this home-grown fuel a successful, widely-used product, the better-off our farmers and our environment will be."


How Al Gore Fostered Famine, Food Riots, and Rising Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Ethanol subsidies have led to hunger and food riots across the world, by diverting critical farmland from food production to fuel production. While in the Senate, Al Gore, working with fat-cat lobbyists, “saved the ethanol” industry by pushing through big taxpayer subsidies for ethanol.

[Stoner]

I should have stated 'expanded'.....but the concept goes back further than Gore:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6079

The Carter administration provided hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidized loans to a dozen gasohol producers and imposed a tariff on imported ethanol. The Reagan administration provided surplus corn to gasohol producers, including $29 million worth to ADM. And the Clinton administration ordered, on dubious environmental grounds, inclusion of small amounts of ethanol in gasoline.

Most expensive is Washington's 54 cent-per-gallon tax break for gasohol. This special-interest loophole accounts for the bulk of the more than $10 billion in subsidies to ADM since 1980. All told, analyst James Bovard estimates that every dollar in profits earned by ADM costs taxpayers $30.

Looks like both parties got in on it, Bush took it to greater heights.


And this:

analyst James Bovard estimates that every dollar in profits earned by ADM costs taxpayers $30.