[LANMaster]

Dja beat me to it?


How about THIS!

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Dja beat me to it?


How about THIS!

Id like to hear what the liberals think of this.

[Bastiat]

Originally Posted by ekim68

But I do have a good idea of how much it costs now that it's not free...

You ain't seen nothing! Wait to see what it costs when its free! You'll be begging for the old system.

[poochee]

May 4, 2009
Senators introduce legislation tripling aid to Pakistan
Posted: 07:00 PM ET
From CNN State Department Producer Elise Labott

WASHINGTON (CNN) – As Pakistani forces continue to battle an advancing Taliban, the leading senators on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee introduced legislation Monday tripling aid to the country.

The Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act of 2009, introduced by Senators John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, and Dick Lugar, R-Indiana, authorizes $7.5 billion in non-military aid to Pakistan over the next five years to foster economic growth and development, and another $7.5 billion for the following five years.

The $1.5 billion per year would triple U.S. non-military aid levels, currently at $500 million per year. In the past, U.S. military aid has surpassed economic and other assistance. The legislation also would separate military from non-military aid, promising that economic aid "is no longer the poor cousin to military aid."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...d-to-pakistan/

[thingamajig]

Originally Posted by Sarge

Id like to hear what the liberals think of this.

I wouldn't pay $30k for a trip to Mexico. Would you? Heck, even if I had to hire an ambulance and pay for two drivers, the cost wouldn't be close. I can only take from this video, that the costs stated are over-inflated. If they are going to exaggerated travel by such a huge amount, why should I believe the other figures. Somebody is trying to protect their meal ticket.

I've said this before in a different thread and I guess I'll have to say it again. Since we don't turn away patients, we already have socialized medicine and yet it's turned on it's head. Somebody has to pay for it and it's not going to be the wealthy Insurance, pharmaceutical, or hospital executives. It's going to be you, me, our children, employers, and the rest of the public when we can least afford it. We all end up paying for it one way or another - usually in the last few months of our lives with whatever we have left.

We know who is paying when two aspirin in the ER costs you $200. The issue is to how it is governed. We can have the middle-man taking his X% cut (the insurance company) or not. We can force it to be non-profit. We can cap the profit. Certainly we could do something. If the Insurance industry is driving up the cost and telling my doctor what he can prescribe, I say to 'ell with them. They can work for a living like the rest of us.

Perhaps some type of regulation or contracted management would be the solution. Allow the financial management to go to the lowest bidder that meets a standard of required care. Whatever we put in place, I don't think it can be worse than the current system.

On misled ideology alone do you guys disregard reports of Americans who did well in foreign national systems (including me). Ideology only works until it effects you - right Wacor? Why don't we skip health care and save Detroit.

[wacor]

Thingy you have a point but here lies the problem when you say this.

The issue is to how it is governed

You think the govt is the one to manage it. I think you forgot about the $1k toilets and nuts and bolts the military purchase. Please explain how a medical system will be managed differently.

[ekim68]

Well we've seen how the medical system runs itself. Isn't that the problem?

[ekim68]

Originally Posted by Bastiat

You ain't seen nothing! Wait to see what it costs when its free! You'll be begging for the old system.

How do you know this? Have you done a comparison?

[thingamajig]

Originally Posted by wacor

Thingy you have a point but here lies the problem when you say this.
You think the govt is the one to manage it. I think you forgot about the $1k toilets and nuts and bolts the military purchase. Please explain how a medical system will be managed differently.

A comparison with DOD is not the best. They often get a blank check because of the left-over cold war fear mongering. It has become the Department of Offense if one wants to talk semantics.

I'm beginning to lean toward some type of contract to the lowest bidder type of situation. It worked with the DOE labs. It works for government travel. There should be a mandate for efficiency and effectiveness. It's not really a free market and I really think the cost is out of control. There just has to be a better way.

It's not as if it hasn't been done before. We have plenty of different models to learn from. I'm also under no illusion that it will be easy or that government without proper oversight is efficient. I just see people uninsured and bankrupted by injury. I see relatives going without needed medicine because of the cost. I think we are capable of something better.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by thingamajig

I wouldn't pay $30k for a trip to Mexico. Would you? Heck, even if I had to hire an ambulance and pay for two drivers, the cost wouldn't be close. I can only take from this video, that the costs stated are over-inflated. If they are going to exaggerated travel by such a huge amount, why should I believe the other figures. Somebody is trying to protect their meal ticket.

I've said this before in a different thread and I guess I'll have to say it again. Since we don't turn away patients, we already have socialized medicine and yet it's turned on it's head. Somebody has to pay for it and it's not going to be the wealthy Insurance, pharmaceutical, or hospital executives. It's going to be you, me, our children, employers, and the rest of the public when we can least afford it. We all end up paying for it one way or another - usually in the last few months of our lives with whatever we have left.

We know who is paying when two aspirin in the ER costs you $200. The issue is to how it is governed. We can have the middle-man taking his X% cut (the insurance company) or not. We can force it to be non-profit. We can cap the profit. Certainly we could do something. If the Insurance industry is driving up the cost and telling my doctor what he can prescribe, I say to 'ell with them. They can work for a living like the rest of us.

Perhaps some type of regulation or contracted management would be the solution. Allow the financial management to go to the lowest bidder that meets a standard of required care. Whatever we put in place, I don't think it can be worse than the current system.

On misled ideology alone do you guys disregard reports of Americans who did well in foreign national systems (including me). Ideology only works until it effects you - right Wacor? Why don't we skip health care and save Detroit.

I think the point of the video IMO wasnt the "socialized medicine" that my taxpaying dollars are going to, it is the illegal aliens my tax money is going to.

[ekim68]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I think the point of the video IMO wasnt the "socialized medicine" that my taxpaying dollars are going to, it is the illegal aliens my tax money is going to.

So you would deny everyone else because of a few illegal aliens, eh?

[thingamajig]

Originally Posted by Sarge

I think the point of the video IMO wasnt the "socialized medicine" that my taxpaying dollars are going to, it is the illegal aliens my tax money is going to.

Yeah, I guess a whole lot of our tax dollars are going to aliens in Iraq and Afghanistan also ... some of it paid in lead.

What does a humane country do when a non-tax-payer (legal or not) gets ill here? I think this has to include immigration reform. We certainly cannot put them out on the street. If we can get some of these other issues under control, perhaps this wouldn't be such a big issue. Overall, I'd put the specifics of the alien health care issue below a lot of many others. But, exaggerating the costs at a public hearing is not going to help. We are becoming the country that cried wolf.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by ekim68

So you would deny everyone else because of a few illegal aliens, eh?

Originally Posted by thingamajig

Yeah, I guess a whole lot of our tax dollars are going to aliens in Iraq and Afghanistan also ... some of it paid in lead.

What does a humane country do when a non-tax-payer (legal or not) gets ill here? I think this has to include immigration reform. We certainly cannot put them out on the street. If we can get some of these other issues under control, perhaps this wouldn't be such a big issue. Overall, I'd put the specifics of the alien health care issue below a lot of many others. But, exaggerating the costs at a public hearing is not going to help. We are becoming the country that cried wolf.

What the heck was I thinking, you guys are right what we need to do is take care of every single sick person in the world for free. No more medical bills! Who needs'em anyway, Ive finally seen the light. Free medical for not only all Americans but free healthcare for the world!

[wacor]

Originally Posted by Sarge

What the heck was I thinking, you guys are right what we need to do is take care of every single sick person in the world for free. No more medical bills! Who needs'em anyway, Ive finally seen the light. Free medical for not only all Americans but free healthcare for the world!

Amazing aint it Sarge

Wonder where this will all end. I imagine one day we will be installing toilets and toilet paper to the rest of the world

[thingamajig]

Originally Posted by Sarge

What the heck was I thinking, you guys are right what we need to do is take care of every single sick person in the world for free. No more medical bills! Who needs'em anyway, Ive finally seen the light. Free medical for not only all Americans but free healthcare for the world!

I'm talking about lawful visitors to our country. How would you treat a guest in your home? I hope this post is no indication. They should be at least stabilized and arrangements made to send them home. Spin it to fit your agenda if you want but you know what I meant - especially since I tied it with immigration reform. You might let someone die on your own sidewalk but I wouldn't. Think before your opinion gets in the way.