[brillser]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

Christians aren't typically interested in "labeling" each other. We typically refer to each other as "Brothers" and "sisters". View the christian connection social group. You are not going to see many "worried" about labels.

Labels are awfully awfully tricky business, as what encompasses a "fundamentalist" to one may not be to another.

I'm not quite sure what you mean there, Dr.
What I meant was, are not "fundamentalists" extreme in their belief?

[RSM123]

Originally Posted by TooBad

That is one of the stupidest things Robin Williams has ever said. There is no comparison of abortion and capital punishment. One is innocent, one has demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that they can't function in society and have caused such great harm they need to be "put down".

- Yet Christians espouse 'Thou Shalt Not Kill.'

No exceptions. Thou Shalt Not. End Of.

Or did I misread 'His' Ten Commandments ?

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by RSM123

- Yet Christians espouse 'Thou Shalt Not Kill.'

No exceptions. Thou Shalt Not. End Of.

Or did I misread 'His' Ten Commandments ?

Not so much a case of "lost in translation" but more of "changed".
It originally reads "shalt not murder".
Distinct difference.

Which also opens a whole new can of beans as the term murder will also find easy application to the abortion issue.

[RSM123]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Not so much a case of "lost in translation" but more of "changed".
It originally reads "shalt not murder".
Distinct difference.

Which also opens a whole new can of beans as the term murder will also find easy application to the abortion issue.

And I believe that that phrase was directly lifted from The Egyptian Book of The Dead with the original wording being ' I have done no murder.' Since this was stated as part of a declaration by the soul of a deceased person who wanted to enter the after life. This later being changed to 'Thou shalt not kill.'

Ø Hail, Devourer of the Shade, who comest forth from Qernet, I have done no murder; I have done no harm.

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

======================

Comparison of Commandments to Egyptian Book
Xeno's Summary Egyptian Book Commandments
Don't kill.


I have not committed murder.
I have not given the order for murder to be committed.
I have done no murder nor bid anyone to slay on my behalf. 1
I have not slain men and women. 2

I. Thou shalt not kill, nor bid anyone kill.
Thou shalt not kill. 3
Don't steal.

I have not stolen. 1 2
I have not stolen food. 2
I have not carried away food. 2
I have not stolen anyone's land. 2
I have not committed robbery with violence. 2
I have not robbed with violence. 1
I have not taken food from a child. 2
I have not filched food from the mouth of the infant. 1

X. Thou shalt not steal nor take that which does not belong to you.
Thou shalt not steal. 3
Don't covet


I have not envied or craved for that which belongs to another. 1


Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods 3
No adultery.
I have not debauched the wife of any man.

I have not lusted nor defiled the wife of any man. 1

I have not seduced anyone's wife. 2
I have not committed adultery. 2


Thou shalt not commit adultery. 3
Don't "bear false witness"
I have not borne [false] witness

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 3
Honor parents I have saluted my mother. ... My heart, my mother; my heart, my mother! ... Homage to thee, O my divine father

Honor thy father and thy mother. 3
Be good.

I have not done iniquity. 1
I have not done that which is abominable. 1
I have done no harm nor have I done evil. 1
I have not worked evil. 2
I have not used evil thoughts, words or deeds. 2
I have not committed sin. 2
?
Don't exaggerate I have never magnified my condition beyond what was fitting. 1 ?
Respect God

I have never cursed God. 1
I have not cursed GOD. 2
I have not transgressed nor have I vexed or angered God. 1
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain. 3
Be nice to people I have not spoken scornfully. 1
I have not stirred up strife. 1
I have not made anyone cry. 2
I have not caused the shedding of tears. 1
I have not worked grief. 1
I have not cursed anyone in thought, word, or deed. 2
?
Don't pollute I have never fouled the water. 1
I have not polluted the water. 2
I have not laid waste to the land. 1
?
Be loyal I have not worked treason. 1
I have not wronged the people. 1 ?
Mind own Business I have not been an eavesdropper. 1 2
I have not overstepped my boundaries of concern. 2
?
No vengeance I have not avenged myself. 1 ("Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.")
Hear Truth

I have not stopped my ears against the words of Right and Truth. 1

I have not closed my ears to truth. 2
?
No cheating

I have not trimmed the measure. 1
I have not dealt deceitfully. 1
I have not acted guilefully. 1
?
Be fair

I have not judged hastily. 1
I have not acted hastily or without thought. 2
?
Be concise I have not multiplied words exceedingly. 1 ?
Don't scare I have not caused terror. 1
I have not terrorized anyone. 2 ?
Appropriate anger

I have not burned with rage. 1
I have not been angry or wrathful without a just cause. 1
I have not been angry without reason. 2
I have not been excessively angry. 2
I have not spoken angrily or arrogantly. 2
?
Eat healthy I have not polluted myself. 1 ?
Don't trash talk I have not set my lips against anyone. 1 ?
Don't lie

I have not spoken lies 1
I have not told lies. 2
I am not deceitful. 2
?
Don't hurt I have not made any to suffer pain. 1
I have done no hurt unto man, nor wrought harm unto beasts. 1 ?
No False Accusations I have not falsely accused anyone. 2 ?
Don't rob your church I have not robbed God. 1
I have not stolen from GOD. 2
I have not swindled offerings. 2
I have not stolen that which belongs to GOD. 2
I have not defrauded offerings. 1 ?
Follow the law I have not disobeyed the law. 2 ?
Respect property I have not destroyed property belonging to GOD. 2 ?
No violence I have not behaved with violence. 2
I have not assaulted anyone. 2 ?
Stay mellow I have not caused disruption of peace. 2 ?
No swearing

I have not cursed. 2

I have never uttered fiery words. 1
?
Appropriate sorrow I have not felt sorrow without reason. 2 ?
Be humble

I have not placed myself on a pedestal. 2
I have not acted with insolence. 1 2
I have not behaved with arrogance. 1
I have not exaggerated my words when speaking. 2
?
Honor the dead I have not stolen from or disrespected the deceased. 2 ?
I'm the best God ? Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 3
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. 3
Holy Sunday ? Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 3

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by RSM123

And I believe that that phrase was directly lifted from The Egyptian Book of The Dead with the original wording being ' I have done no murder.' Since this was stated as part of a declaration by the soul of a deceased person who wanted to enter the after life. This later being changed to 'Thou shalt not kill.'

Ø Hail, Devourer of the Shade, who comest forth from Qernet, I have done no murder; I have done no harm.

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

======================

Comparison of Commandments to Egyptian Book
Xeno's Summary Egyptian Book Commandments
Don't kill.


I have not committed murder.
I have not given the order for murder to be committed.
I have done no murder nor bid anyone to slay on my behalf. 1
I have not slain men and women. 2

I. Thou shalt not kill, nor bid anyone kill.
Thou shalt not kill. 3
Don't steal.

I have not stolen. 1 2
I have not stolen food. 2
I have not carried away food. 2
I have not stolen anyone's land. 2
I have not committed robbery with violence. 2
I have not robbed with violence. 1
I have not taken food from a child. 2
I have not filched food from the mouth of the infant. 1

X. Thou shalt not steal nor take that which does not belong to you.
Thou shalt not steal. 3
Don't covet


I have not envied or craved for that which belongs to another. 1


Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods 3
No adultery.
I have not debauched the wife of any man.

I have not lusted nor defiled the wife of any man. 1

I have not seduced anyone's wife. 2
I have not committed adultery. 2


Thou shalt not commit adultery. 3
Don't "bear false witness"
I have not borne [false] witness

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 3
Honor parents I have saluted my mother. ... My heart, my mother; my heart, my mother! ... Homage to thee, O my divine father

Honor thy father and thy mother. 3
Be good.

I have not done iniquity. 1
I have not done that which is abominable. 1
I have done no harm nor have I done evil. 1
I have not worked evil. 2
I have not used evil thoughts, words or deeds. 2
I have not committed sin. 2
?
Don't exaggerate I have never magnified my condition beyond what was fitting. 1 ?
Respect God

I have never cursed God. 1
I have not cursed GOD. 2
I have not transgressed nor have I vexed or angered God. 1
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain. 3
Be nice to people I have not spoken scornfully. 1
I have not stirred up strife. 1
I have not made anyone cry. 2
I have not caused the shedding of tears. 1
I have not worked grief. 1
I have not cursed anyone in thought, word, or deed. 2
?
Don't pollute I have never fouled the water. 1
I have not polluted the water. 2
I have not laid waste to the land. 1
?
Be loyal I have not worked treason. 1
I have not wronged the people. 1 ?
Mind own Business I have not been an eavesdropper. 1 2
I have not overstepped my boundaries of concern. 2
?
No vengeance I have not avenged myself. 1 ("Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord.")
Hear Truth

I have not stopped my ears against the words of Right and Truth. 1

I have not closed my ears to truth. 2
?
No cheating

I have not trimmed the measure. 1
I have not dealt deceitfully. 1
I have not acted guilefully. 1
?
Be fair

I have not judged hastily. 1
I have not acted hastily or without thought. 2
?
Be concise I have not multiplied words exceedingly. 1 ?
Don't scare I have not caused terror. 1
I have not terrorized anyone. 2 ?
Appropriate anger

I have not burned with rage. 1
I have not been angry or wrathful without a just cause. 1
I have not been angry without reason. 2
I have not been excessively angry. 2
I have not spoken angrily or arrogantly. 2
?
Eat healthy I have not polluted myself. 1 ?
Don't trash talk I have not set my lips against anyone. 1 ?
Don't lie

I have not spoken lies 1
I have not told lies. 2
I am not deceitful. 2
?
Don't hurt I have not made any to suffer pain. 1
I have done no hurt unto man, nor wrought harm unto beasts. 1 ?
No False Accusations I have not falsely accused anyone. 2 ?
Don't rob your church I have not robbed God. 1
I have not stolen from GOD. 2
I have not swindled offerings. 2
I have not stolen that which belongs to GOD. 2
I have not defrauded offerings. 1 ?
Follow the law I have not disobeyed the law. 2 ?
Respect property I have not destroyed property belonging to GOD. 2 ?
No violence I have not behaved with violence. 2
I have not assaulted anyone. 2 ?
Stay mellow I have not caused disruption of peace. 2 ?
No swearing

I have not cursed. 2

I have never uttered fiery words. 1
?
Appropriate sorrow I have not felt sorrow without reason. 2 ?
Be humble

I have not placed myself on a pedestal. 2
I have not acted with insolence. 1 2
I have not behaved with arrogance. 1
I have not exaggerated my words when speaking. 2
?
Honor the dead I have not stolen from or disrespected the deceased. 2 ?
I'm the best God ? Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 3
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. 3
Holy Sunday ? Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 3

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

Sheesh RSM, if representatives of Budweiser (I assume it to be the US plonk) get you going like that, what will the real stuff do if you ever get the chance to sample something from Budewice?

It would appear to be older than that. The Hammurabi code (Babylon) was written (and established thruout the whole region including Egypt) long before the Dynasties of Egypt were born.
Moses bringing down the commandments from Sinai was even later.
He could have picked the laws up in Egypt but they were probably already known to the Israelites from time before.
At Mt. Sinai they needed a reminder and what better effect than to garnish it with a bit of paranormality.

Which brings me back to the consideration that the next time God speaks to us thru a Bush, I hope he reverts to the honoured practice of setting him on fire first.

[LauraMJ]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

Actually, I believe there are only two:

[brillser]

Originally Posted by LauraMJ

In an ideal world perhaps, but the two mentioned by Dr (although perfectly admirable) do not and cannot account for what is between the ears of humankind.

[Drabdr]

Originally Posted by brillser

I'm not quite sure what you mean there, Dr.
What I meant was, are not "fundamentalists" extreme in their belief?

OK, sorry if I seemed touchy; I really did not mean it to be.

My point, though, in a nice way, is that you are asking the wrong person. Most of the descriptors like extreme and fundamentalist need to have an accurate anchor, or a good description, to suggest what it means. I've been called a fundamentalist (and extreme). I may be, but until one knows what they are referencing, I really can't say. Make sense?

Originally Posted by brillser

In an ideal world perhaps, but the two mentioned by Dr (although perfectly admirable) do not and cannot account for what is between the ears of humankind.

What part of humankind can they not account for? Too, the thread was about fixations. Most christians that I know are not fixated about evolution, or exactly how the world was created, or if the dimensions of the Ark are correct, so that it can scientifically float. They are concerned with living the life God wants them to live, trying to be the right influence/ example to their children and grandchildren, and trying to get as many people to Heaven with them as they can.

[poochee]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

What part of humankind can they not account for? Too, the thread was about fixations. Most christians that I know are not fixated about evolution, or exactly how the world was created, or if the dimensions of the Ark are correct, so that it can scientifically float. They are concerned with living the life God wants them to live, trying to be the right influence/ example to their children and grandchildren, and trying to get as many people to Heaven with them as they can.

Amen!

[brillser]

Originally Posted by brillser View Post
In an ideal world perhaps, but the two mentioned by Dr (although perfectly admirable) do not and cannot account for what is between the ears of humankind.

What part of humankind can they not account for?

Now, I find your question a tad mischievous, however, my answer is:

The parts that will insist on thinking for themselves (for good or bad, right or wrong) despite your sound and reasonable advice. Which is based upon the wisdom of the ancients.

Again,

What part of humankind can they not account for?

The part between their ears.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

Actually, I believe there are only two:

Originally Posted by LauraMJ

Originally Posted by poochee

Amen!

Originally Posted by Drabdr

OK, sorry if I seemed touchy; I really did not mean it to be.

My point, though, in a nice way, is that you are asking the wrong person. Most of the descriptors like extreme and fundamentalist need to have an accurate anchor, or a good description, to suggest what it means. I've been called a fundamentalist (and extreme). I may be, but until one knows what they are referencing, I really can't say. Make sense?

What part of humankind can they not account for? Too, the thread was about fixations. Most christians that I know are not fixated about evolution, or exactly how the world was created, or if the dimensions of the Ark are correct, so that it can scientifically float. They are concerned with living the life God wants them to live, trying to be the right influence/ example to their children and grandchildren, and trying to get as many people to Heaven with them as they can.

Where I do agree with what you state none of the above answers address the actual topic of the OP.

The topic is that for fundamentalist Christians evolution didn't happen, abortion is murder and absolute truth exists.

I don't particularly take to labelling anyone either (it's usually stupidly simplistic or simplistically stupid, take your pick) but when I am confronted by somebody rigorously maintaining all those positions I'll call him/her a fundamentalist Christian.

By no means do I consider Christians to be that in general, that would be ignoring my own experiences for one thing.

Your example of there being only two fixations (I have called them social imperatives, religious AND moral) is all very well and what you cite is commendable but none of this addresses the topic.

Most of the descriptors like extreme and fundamentalist need to have an accurate anchor, or a good description, to suggest what it means........but until one knows what they are referencing

I suggest that the description and anchor are stated by the OP so what reference don't you understand?

Most christians that I know are not fixated about evolution, or exactly how the world was created, or if the dimensions of the Ark are correct, so that it can scientifically float.

I liked the concept of "scientifically floating". Can something float unscientifically? Is that a bit like wallowing in the waves

Nobody is saying that MOST Christians ARE fixated about these issues.

But where is the stance (whichever) that MOST Christians take wrt those that do have fixations of this kind and actively combat science, deny history and try to wrap this approach into a cloak of pseudo scientific spiffle, in the futile (by default) attempt to defend their faith that nobody is challenging?

That three members applauded your answer (did I miss anyone?) is all very well but shows either their incapacity or their unwillingness to step forward and talk shop.

I shan't address any questions to them but where do you stand?

[Drabdr]

Originally Posted by brillser

Now, I find your question a tad mischievous, however, my answer is:

The parts that will insist on thinking for themselves (for good or bad, right or wrong) despite your sound and reasonable advice. Which is based upon the wisdom of the ancients.

Again,


The part between their ears.

So, am I to take it by the question that essentially those who are christians don't think for themselves, and those that are not christians do think for themselves?

It seems a bit like a loaded statement, to me. Similar to the use of the phrase christians/ fundamental christians/ non-fundamental christians, etc. are fixated on....

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, most certainly.

[Drabdr]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Where I do agree with what you state none of the above answers address the actual topic of the OP.

Then precisely what is the topic? My point of posting what I did is instead of guessing or wondering what christians are fixated with, just ask one. I gave an answer.

Sooo... is it christians fixated on those three, or non-christians fixating on christians stance on those three?

[brillser]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

So, am I to take it by the question that essentially those who are christians don't think for themselves, and those that are not christians do think for themselves?

It seems a bit like a loaded statement, to me. Similar to the use of the phrase christians/ fundamental christians/ non-fundamental christians, etc. are fixated on....

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, most certainly.

So, am I to take it by the question that essentially those who are christians don't think for themselves, and those that are not christians do think for themselves?

I've no idea how you could have read my question to mean that, but, it doesn't matter.
I'm sick to death of these ridiculous religious threads.
bye bye.

P.S. The word christians takes a "C".

[TooBad]

Originally Posted by RSM123

- Yet Christians espouse 'Thou Shalt Not Kill.'

No exceptions. Thou Shalt Not. End Of.

Or did I misread 'His' Ten Commandments ?

Yes, you misread the ten commandments, the proper quote is "Thou shalt not commit murder." God has nothing against killing, just murder.