[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by valis

I think what you mean to say is that


because you got NO proof that he even exists, much less that he has appointed you spokesperson for what is and is not an abomination in his eyes.

The voice of reason !
That point ...believers have trouble understanding ...because they are believers .
All their positions are based on a authority that is based on ....beliefs ..nothing more .
Difficult to argue against stuff that is not based on any real facts -- supernatural stuff --like trying to hold smoke in you hands .
Thank you for trying though >f

[valis]

oh boy.....has stoner gotten a whiff of this guy yet?

[valis]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

The voice of reason !
That point ...believers have trouble understanding ...because they are believers .
All their positions are based on a authority that is based on ....beliefs ..nothing more .
Difficult to argue against stuff that is not based on any real facts -- supernatural stuff --like trying to hold smoke in you hands .
Thank you for trying though >f

heyya fidelista.......

see, problem is, I'm a believer. But not as sharply focused as he is. I'm sort of the fuzzy, warm, pretty sure there's something there, but dunno what it is and seriously doubt our mortal brains can even fathom what *it* is.

But I'll be dipped if some two-bit bible thumping God reverin' Praisen be to Jesus dude is going to tell me that what I believe is wrong.

Because it's not.

Neither is his.

Neither is pyrite's, and he's an atheist.

some people just like to think that the world and universe and cosmos and everything in it just happened.
others like to think that it was created by this omnipotent dude who showed up 200,000 years after we did.
others like to think that this is a lucky roll of the dice, a cosmic hiccough if you will.

I like to think somewhere inbetwixt those.......go figure......

there's a pattern here..........we are meant to see it..........but I highly doubt it's going to be from some southern dude with more oil in his hair than I got in my car who's going to make me pay to see it. I don't think that's how it works.

I also don't think it works like the bible says. Just don't.

But I do believe that there is something out there, and it is 'all-knowing' because it is made up of you, me, him, her, etc, and that is how knowledge is passed.........we just have to find the way to access it again.

how's that for a tuesday night?

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by valis

oh boy.....has stoner gotten a whiff of this guy yet?

Stoner --the debater that he is , will have no luck either . He might get a whiff , but its all smoke .
You can't defeat supernatural beliefs { any of them } with rational thought --logic -- or facts . Impossible .
I would like to see him try however . >f

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by valis

heyya fidelista.......

see, problem is, I'm a believer. But not as sharply focused as he is. I'm sort of the fuzzy, warm, pretty sure there's something there, but dunno what it is and seriously doubt our mortal brains can even fathom what *it* is.

But I'll be dipped if some two-bit bible thumping God reverin' Praisen be to Jesus dude is going to tell me that what I believe is wrong.

Because it's not.

Neither is his.

Neither is pyrite's, and he's an atheist.

some people just like to think that the world and universe and cosmos and everything in it just happened.
others like to think that it was created by this omnipotent dude who showed up 200,000 years after we did.
others like to think that this is a lucky roll of the dice, a cosmic hiccough if you will.

I like to think somewhere inbetwixt those.......go figure......

there's a pattern here..........we are meant to see it..........but I highly doubt it's going to be from some southern dude with more oil in his hair than I got in my car who's going to make me pay to see it. I don't think that's how it works.

I also don't think it works like the bible says. Just don't.

But I do believe that there is something out there, and it is 'all-knowing' because it is made up of you, me, him, her, etc, and that is how knowledge is passed.........we just have to find the way to access it again.

how's that for a tuesday night?

Good for any night ! . You don't have the answers and recognize nobody else does either ----so you are right !
It really can't be any other way so .... I agree . >f

[valis]

sweet.........I got an A.........

bottom line is, nobody can prove anything........so why don't we just get along?

[katonca]

Originally Posted by Murtag

*have
The world, even your own body is proof He does exist.
The world and the human body is so complex, no logical person would believe that it just somehow happened in some sort of explosion, then, managed to become what it is today.

Couldn't agree more. One of my doctors went on a roll about the harmony needed for our bodies to function "correctly". It was amazing the balanced needed. I believe God created our bodies, not chance.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Murtag

About Absolute Truth, check this site out.
*question is at top in white, click the box that you choose as your answer*
>>>>Please read through it, it will help explain things so it makes sense<<<<
http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/

oh please.....don't insult the members here with this tripe

i absolutely believe that molesting kids is wrong.....so i agree with your folks at the ministry
but all of morality -be it absolute or relative- is not contained in that example......it's simplistic and insulting.
for example, i do not absolutely believe that abortion (or homosexuality, if you prefer) is wrong.....using the ministry's definition of absolute as "true for all people at all times....universally true"

therefore god does not exist, according to that site.

unless, as fidelista has stated (quite rationally, i might add) you are already a believer.
but then, you don't need it to make sense

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by iltos

oh please.....don't insult the members here with this tripe

i absolutely believe that molesting kids is wrong.....so i agree with your folks at the ministry
but all of morality -be it absolute or relative- is not contained in that example......it's simplistic and insulting.
for example, i do not absolutely believe that abortion (or homosexuality, if you prefer) is wrong.....using the ministry's definition of absolute as "true for all people at all times....universally true"

therefore god does not exist, according to that site.

unless, as fidelista has stated (quite rationally, i might add) you are already a believer.
but then, you don't need it to make sense

Iltos, I mean no offense to believers in any supernatural belief --its a universal human need .
It only becomes a problem when it is viewed as absolute fact ,to be accepted as such by all, whatever sect is involved .
It can be .... comforting and comfortable ...I know ...been there as youth. I wished I could still believe in comforting things .
The way I see it is this , its harder not to believe you have answers , than it is too believe you do .
Admitting that we really don't know squat about "why" and what will become of us in end,makes us less powerful--- requires humility , and that is very difficult . Humility always is difficult . >f

[Murtag]

Originally Posted by iltos

oh please.....don't insult the members here with this tripe

i absolutely believe that molesting kids is wrong.....so i agree with your folks at the ministry
but all of morality -be it absolute or relative- is not contained in that example......it's simplistic and insulting.
for example, i do not absolutely believe that abortion (or homosexuality, if you prefer) is wrong.....using the ministry's definition of absolute as "true for all people at all times....universally true"

therefore god does not exist, according to that site.

unless, as fidelista has stated (quite rationally, i might add) you are already a believer.
but then, you don't need it to make sense

Your example definition of absolute truth, and theirs differs greatly.
Therefore your statement, "therefore god does not exist, according to that site.", is null.

[Drabdr]

Well... I'll just add that as I have mentioned before, within a biblical context, I believe homosexuality is a sin..

But here are some others:

pride, lust, jealousy, fits of rage, dissention, lying, cheating, adultery, fornication, False teaching, drunkards,.......

I know there are many others, but my point is this: Too many christians love to pick and choose their sins for some personal chase. We need to start with the premise that 1) We are all sinners, and 2) we all struggle with sin, 3) all sins are equal.

Jesus got the most angry with those twisting the law, and making a mockery out of the temple. He never passed judgment on the woman caught in adultery; only said go, and sin no more.

I have much to learn from Jesus.

[Wino]

V - You get one vote for the 'hiccup' theory here.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

Well... I'll just add that as I have mentioned before, within a biblical context, I believe homosexuality is a sin..

But here are some others:

pride, lust, jealousy, fits of rage, dissention, lying, cheating, adultery, fornication, False teaching, drunkards,.......

I know there are many others, but my point is this: Too many christians love to pick and choose their sins for some personal chase. We need to start with the premise that 1) We are all sinners, and 2) we all struggle with sin, 3) all sins are equal.

Jesus got the most angry with those twisting the law, and making a mockery out of the temple. He never passed judgment on the woman caught in adultery; only said go, and sin no more.

I have much to learn from Jesus.

Anything that is proven to be harmful to a individual , or society in general is a "sin" - IMO
Caught in lie ,stealing , or adultery ect , can result in "paying hell" or "hell on earth" --no doubt !
These things are not just result of religious belief , they are universal . We all know eating babies and stealing has repercussions , and we all have conscience based on that .
I do agree that there is much to be learned from Jesus .
When I was a child , I used to listen to lessons and wonder .
I finally began to think that the Rabbi Jesus was teaching us to rebel against human nature ,what was self defeating and destructive .
The next thing I wondered about was why we acted in self -destructive manner , as well as destructive to society as a whole . Since I didn't buy devils and demons , I thought it was propagation of species . In this scenario, murder , greed , impregnating all available , was ...natural,,survivial of fittest .
So .... Jesus was calling for a higher aim , above the natural instinct we all struggle with .
Just my youthful take on Jesus .
That said , I agree , much can be learned from Jesus . Much wisdom that goes beyond human nature .
There is wisdom contained in the teaching of Jesus , whether one is Christian , believer , or not .
Just my take >f

[valis]

Originally Posted by Wino

V - You get one vote for the 'hiccup' theory here.

tellin' you, bud......you and my pop.......you guys would get along quite well.........he's gonna be in luling for about a month or so, come end of february........how far away from you is that? Maybe we could set and talk a spell. Maybe even let ya meet my boy. Reckon the lice should be cleared off'n him by then...........

[Wino]

Originally Posted by valis

tellin' you, bud......you and my pop.......you guys would get along quite well.........he's gonna be in luling for about a month or so, come end of february........how far away from you is that? Maybe we could set and talk a spell. Maybe even let ya meet my boy. Reckon the lice should be cleared off'n him by then...........

There's a good chance I'll be on and off a job site in Gonzales sometime during that period. Luling is about halfway +/- a bit (45 mi. or so). Deke put me on to the Central Market in Luling (center of town on the square) - great BBQ. Before that, only reason I went into Luling was for Black Diamond Watermelons when in season. Will keep you posted.

I'm also expecting to be on jobs in Houston/Kemah/Galveston again before spring break provided customer coughs up the money BEFORE I go (slow pay last go round).

Back on topic - could have been a fart in lieu of a hiccup.