[iltos]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

You don't what? Know? Care? think?

Zelaya tried to usurp their Congress and Constitution to install himself as permanent President.

In English? .... D I C T A T O R

That would be like Bush changing our Constitution during his 2nd term to end Presidential term limits. I'm sure you would have been all for that action, yes?

i agree

why do you continue to ignore the fact that the "constitutional convention" that Zelaya was calling for was scheduled to take place AFTER his single term was over, and -while it's purpose WAS to open discussion on repealing that part of the constitution that limited the presidency to a single term- that part of the constitution was considered by many to have outlived it's purpose?

your sources ignore the timeline in favor of a military junta that siezed the reigns of a legitimately elected democratic government merely because it's president thought this meeting (again...WHEN he was no longer president) would be beneficial.....

and construe it to be a "power grab" from a "dictator"

not to mention it was a MEETING, designed to discuss the issue and then VOTE on it.

that's the last time i'll bring this up....i'm thinking that its because obama's supporting Zelaya, along with EVERY other OAS nation (the commies and the democracies alike) that you're all wierded out about this.

believe what you will

[LANMaster]

Zeleya sought to usurp his own Congress and appoint himself for life. That is a fact.

Just like every pinko Commie on his bloc.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Zeleya sought to usurp his own Congress and appoint himself for life. That is a fact.

Just like every pinko Commie on his bloc.

Iltos took the trouble to research. That's good counsel and most times one winds up to be correct. Iltos is correct, you're not.

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

Are you claiming that private business has greater fiscal efficiency anywhere close to that of the Federal government?

I'll claim it

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

Private business are more prone to keep two sets of books, while the Fed. government may only on occasion buy a $600 toilet seat.

-- Tom

Perhaps in those lovely mafia type shows...however, dual record keeping is not a common practice of private businesses. I'd also have to question your phrase "only on occasion" after all, it's not like the building of a bridge

[wacor]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

Are you claiming that private business has greater fiscal efficiency anywhere close to that of the Federal government?

Spoken like a true liberal statist who hates capitalism.

Private business are more prone to keep two sets of books, while the Fed. government may only on occasion buy a $600 toilet seat.
-- Tom

Yeah every business cooks the books.

Govt is the most inefficient and wasteful entity out there. It can afford to be as it never is accountable. And it is proven when politicians keep making claims they can solve this or that by weeding out the waste, fraud, etc.

[lotuseclat79]

HI Bill,

There are outposts in the Fed. Gov't that are more efficient than others. When I was in the military, I worked in the technical field of radar systems engineering (as close to a civilian job as one could get - i.e. my business suit was my uniform). Along side us in the technical end, we worked with business contract buyers who were second to none! We procured missile and satellite tracking radar systems from US vendors that keep us safe to this day.

You should thank your sorry butt that there are some very competent folks in parts of the Fed. Government that keep you and your family safe!

-- Tom

[wacor]

Govt is a necessary evil. Not every bit of it is corrupt or mismanaged. Mainly though the efficiencies occur on the local level where the scale is smaller and oversight is closer.

We started out quite well when it was there to do the core things our founding fathers believed in.

Now it is nothing more than a monster than feeds on itself.

I am not for anarchy but lets face it govt has no ability to police itself so it can get away with crap that any businessman would be jailed for.

You can support the continuation if you like. It is unsustainable though

[TooBad]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

HI Bill,

There are outposts in the Fed. Gov't that are more efficient than others. When I was in the military, I worked in the technical field of radar systems engineering (as close to a civilian job as one could get - i.e. my business suit was my uniform). Along side us in the technical end, we worked with business contract buyers who were second to none! We procured missile and satellite tracking radar systems from US vendors that keep us safe to this day.

You should thank your sorry butt that there are some very competent folks in parts of the Fed. Government that keep you and your family safe!

-- Tom

I have also worked in that arena, and there are some successes, but also many failures due to incompetence and sometime systemic issue with procurement procedures. There are also bad contractors that scam the system due to many various issue with the way government awards contracts. There is the big scam with the Phalanx system a few years ago that cost the lives of the sailors on the USS Stark as the contractor would test a board 1000x and if it failed the first 999, then passed a test, they sent it out as passed. That was why the system was not up and running to protect the USS Stark. And the government oversight personnel did not do due diligence to discover the testing fiasco.

The government does not do anything more efficiently as private business as the bottom line doesn't exist for government.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Zeleya sought to usurp his own Congress and appoint himself for life. That is a fact.

Just like every pinko Commie on his bloc.

What Iltos posted is fact , the truth . Its sad that you unable to grasp the truth , or anything not fed you by your rightwing nutcase sources . You really are blind .
Consider this >>>
To date, no single country in the world has recognized the de facto government as legitimate; all members of the UN condemned the removal of Zelaya as a coup d'etat. However, some members of the U.S. Congress have voiced support for the interim government
Lan , think about it --every nation in world condemns this coup , including your own --thats everybody but a few right wing wackos . Even conservatives that I know realize that this was nothing but more banana republic criminal actividy .
Does this give you reason to question your position ?.
The courts in Honduras ? , who do you think they work for ?
I will give you a hint --not the people . You do not go far in politic unless you work for the Elite -- the Army -- and American business . If you want to be judge ? LOL!!!
You have no idea how the central American republics work .
They are criminal , corrupt , and murderous .
Murder , corruption has been encouraged , enforced , funded , supported and even taught {School of Americas } . Its been enforced as a way of life for over 100 yrs . All for economic benefit of a few . These nations are NOT sovereign , never have been .
Look at the nations we support , look at Guatamala --next door . It recieves military aid and support from U.S. . I will give a hint about the democratic process there . How many political candidates do you suppose were assassinated during the 2007 elections ?????? two ? three? .
No , 50 , fifty murdered in one election , so much for your democracy in the Banana Republics .

Honduras is little different , or better .
Simply a coup pushed by the elite and their corrupt flunkies . Everybody in world knows it .

There is simply no way any rational , or decent person could support this crap , and fortunately , hardly any do --they are very rare .
Hardly anyone but you .
We all have our political opinions Lan , but my god ! you have head up arse !!!
You refuse to even consider anything that doesn't conform to your pre-concieved paranoid ideas . Thats all you read , all you consider . You seem to be fixated on Communists enemies everywhere -- even your own govt ! . The truth is lost on you, always will be--IMO . >f
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The Obama administration has an obligation to demand that the de facto regime in Honduras stop ongoing political killings and other human rights abuses, Center for Economic and Policy Research Co-Director Mark Weisbrot said today. Weisbrot noted that human rights observers and international media have documented the killings of at least ten people - mostly of supporters of ousted president Manuel Zelaya, and all apparently politically motivated - since the coup d'etat occurred on June 28.

"The Obama administration is turning a blind eye to the violent repression the coup regime is carrying out against the Honduran people," Weisbrot said. "It could very quickly put a stop to these killings by freezing the assets of the regime leaders and their backers among the Honduran elite."

On July 15, a well-respected human rights organization in Honduras, the Honduran Committee for the Relatives of the Disappeared Detainees (COFADEH), released a report documenting the murders of three individuals.


19-year-old Isis Obed Murillo Mencias, who died from a bullet wound to the head during a protest at the Toncontin International Airport on Sunday July 5.
Journalist Gabriel Fino Noriega, who was shot seven times after leaving Radio Estelar on July 3.
Caso Ramon Garcia, a member of the leftist Democratic Unification (UD) party, who was pulled off a bus and killed by unknown assailants.

On July 23, an International Observation Mission made up of 15 human rights workers from Latin America and Europe representing 13 different countries presented their preliminary report on the human rights situation in Honduras. In addition to the three cases previously documented by COFADEH, the Mission documented three more murders:


Roger Ivan Bados, a UD party member and part of the Popular Bloc, a grassroots organization opposed to the coup, was forcibly removed from his home and killed on July 11.

Vicky Hernandez Castillo, a member of the LGBT community was found dead on June 29 with a bullet wound in the eye and marks of strangulation.
On July 3 an unknown individual was found dead in the "La Montanita" district of Tegucigalpa, an area previously used as a "clandestine cemetery for extra-judicial executions during the 80's". The unknown individual was wearing a "Cuarta Urna" t-shirt, referring to the popular survey that was to be carried out on Sunday, June 28.
Since these reports have come out there have been at least four more extra-judicial killings reported in the media:


Pedro Magdiel Muñoz Salvador, a 23-year-old construction worker from Tegucigalpa who had traveled to the Honduran-Nicaraguan border, was found stabbed to death in a highly-visible field near the border on July 25.
Roger Abraham Vallejo, a teacher from Tegucigalpa was shot in the head and critically wounded during an anti-coup demonstration on July 30. Two days later he was pronounced dead.
Martin Florencio Rivera, another teacher, was stabbed to death on his way home from Vallejo's wake on August 1.
On August 2, Pedro Pablo Hernández was shot by the Honduran military while driving after reportedly not responding to a signal to stop at a military checkpoint.
The reports document other human rights abuses carried out by the regime, including thousands who have been detained, and hundreds wounded.
http://www.cepr.net/index.php/press-...imes-killings/

[LANMaster]

Fidel,
My main source is a close friend who was born in, grew up in, and has family in Honduras.
Zeleya is a Chavez-style communist dictator.
I may not know a whole lot about Honduras, but my friend certainly does. I trust that opinion over any biased media report from either bent.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Fidel,
My main source is a close friend who was born in, grew up in, and has family in Honduras.
Zeleya is a Chavez-style communist dictator.
I may not know a whole lot about Honduras, but my friend certainly does. I trust that opinion over any biased media report from either bent.

That I expected , you have your blinders on .
If you choose to believe your "friend" in spite of the fact that the whole world recognizes what is going on , well.........you are beyond hope .
Maybe a read on the Central American Republics history would help ...never mind ...you have a Honduran "friend" .
>f

[LANMaster]

You're ignoring the facts surrounding South American Communism.

Of course ... as a Fidel Castro fan, why should anyone be surprised.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

You're ignoring the facts surrounding South American Communism.

ok....i'll bite
what are "the facts" surrounding south american communism?

[LANMaster]

Over the past 50 years, the scourge of Communism has been responsible for some of the feircest tyrrany that South America has ever seen.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Over the past 50 years, the scourge of Communism has been responsible for some of the feircest tyrrany that South America has ever seen.

well, that certainly conforms to the party line.....and there's no doubt whatsoever that a lot of blood was spilled -especially in central america- in the last 30 years of the 20th century.

but you have to take a look at the history of the region in the first third of the last century for the roots of that bloodshed: it's had much more to do with self-determination than communism.

funny how the two get confused.