[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by iltos

well, that certainly conforms to the party line.....and there's no doubt whatsoever that a lot of blood was spilled -especially in central america- in the last 30 years of the 20th century.

but you have to take a look at the history of the region in the first third of the last century for the roots of that bloodshed: it's had much more to do with self-determination than communism.

funny how the two get confused.

Not confusing at all for me.

Communism cannot exist without tyrrany. Self determination is the cure for the cancer of Communism.

And right now, The USA is chain-smoking 10 packs of non-filters a day in an effort to get this cancer.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Over the past 50 years, the scourge of Communism has been responsible for some of the feircest tyrrany that South America has ever seen.

Look LAN, I'm vociferously anti communist but let's get some facts into their proper relative context.

Battista
Somoza
Galtieri
Pinochet
Bordaberry
Stroessner
Banzer and Garcia Meza Tejada
Fujimori
Guillermo Rodríguez
Castro (Melgar) and Paz García
Majano Ramos
Torrijos
Duvalier
Balaguer

Not all but many of these over the past 50 years have been responsible for some of the fiercest tyrannies seen in South America. And brought communism to the peak it could reach.

So let's state it all or let's be silent.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Not confusing at all for me.

Confusion is last recognized (if at all) by the confused

Communism cannot exist without tyrrany.

True!!

Self determination is the cure for the cancer of Communism.

If it is allowed. When it's not allowed it is the cure for the cancer of colonialism, national, corporate or otherwise. The list of "United Dictators" I posted previously almost had me tempted to insert "Fruit Company". But that would be unjust since they weren't involved everywhere and certainly weren't the only ones and it's all a long time ago..

And right now, The USA is chain-smoking 10 packs of non-filters a day in an effort to get this cancer.

That's a laughable comparison. You don't get communism from smoking

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Look LAN, I'm vociferously anti communist but let's get some facts into their proper relative context.

Battista
Somoza
Galtieri
Pinochet
Bordaberry
Stroessner
Banzer and Garcia Meza Tejada
Fujimori
Guillermo Rodríguez
Castro (Melgar) and Paz García
Majano Ramos
Torrijos
Duvalier
Balaguer

Not all but many of these over the past 50 years have been responsible for some of the fiercest tyrannies seen in South America. And brought communism to the peak it could reach.

So let's state it all or let's be silent.

Undeniably tyrants.
Is your point that those are not communists? <-- confused:

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Confusion is last recognized (if at all) by the confused
True!! If it is allowed. When it's not allowed it is the cure for the cancer of colonialism, national, corporate or otherwise. The list of "United Dictators" I posted previously almost had me tempted to insert "Fruit Company". But that would be unjust since they weren't involved everywhere and certainly weren't the only ones and it's all a long time ago..
That's a laughable comparison. You don't get communism from smoking

Dude, surely you understood my point about the cancer and the smoking.
Perhaps you are confused?

Communism is the cancer
Smoking causes cancer
The way the US is suddenly embracing the cancer of communism is tantamount to economic and social cancer.
Radiation therapy may be forthcoming if we are not careful

.... sorry if that's a bit too deep for comprehension.


Goatta run.
Have a good evening, Amigo. I mean that sincerely.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Dude, surely you understood my point about the cancer and the smoking.
Perhaps you are confused?

Communism is the cancer
Smoking causes cancer
The way the US is suddenly embracing the cancer of communism is tantamount to economic and social cancer.
Radiation therapy may be forthcoming if we are not careful

.... sorry if that's a bit too deep for comprehension.


Goatta run.
Have a good evening, Amigo. I mean that sincerely.

You too mate

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Undeniably tyrants.
Is your point that those are not communists? <-- confused:

I thought you'd be too darn lazy to look them up

[Wino]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Not confusing at all for me.

Communism cannot exist without tyrrany. Self determination is the cure for the cancer of Communism.

And right now, The USA is chain-smoking 10 packs of non-filters a day in an effort to get this cancer.

Communism and socialism flourished during the 50's, 60's and 70's in the Caribbean, Central and South America due to the tyranny of the right winger dictators the US aided, abetted and supported. There was no way we would allow them to have self-determination in those days. Fact is, they are damned lucky we have too much going on elsewhere to really do much meddling in their affairs today. If Bush hadn't been so preoccupied with the Arabs, we'd probably be in a war with some country in S. America.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Wino

Communism and socialism flourished during the 50's, 60's and 70's in the Caribbean, Central and South America due to the tyranny of the right winger dictators the US aided, abetted and supported. There was no way we would allow them to have self-determination in those days.

glad somebody's paying attention.....at least two of them stinking commies that were overthrown -leading to the bloodshed we are so eager to hang on them- were democratically elected governments.....we just didn't think they were "democratic" enough, and funded "revolutionary forces"

and then there's pinochet, the true despot of the group....neither commie or facist....just a guy with a powerful case of "vision"

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by iltos

well, that certainly conforms to the party line.....and there's no doubt whatsoever that a lot of blood was spilled -especially in central america- in the last 30 years of the 20th century.

but you have to take a look at the history of the region in the first third of the last century for the roots of that bloodshed: it's had much more to do with self-determination than communism.

funny how the two get confused.

You have eyes ! .
Pedro didn't know , or need Marxist theory , he did not know what it was .
He did know however , that he was slave to corrupt bootlicks , his country owned by foreign interests , no chance of education for his children , no chance to see doctor or dentist , maybe watch his child die to keep banana/sugar/coffee/tobacco a little cheaper , and if protest -- he would disappear.
These are things you seem to understand , good luck trying to explain to others . >f

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by Wino

Communism and socialism flourished during the 50's, 60's and 70's in the Caribbean, Central and South America due to the tyranny of the right winger dictators the US aided, abetted and supported. There was no way we would allow them to have self-determination in those days. Fact is, they are damned lucky we have too much going on elsewhere to really do much meddling in their affairs today. If Bush hadn't been so preoccupied with the Arabs, we'd probably be in a war with some country in S. America.

This is fair criticism.

What would you have done differently? (leaving out the anti-Bush venom)

[Wino]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

This is fair criticism.

What would you have done differently? (leaving out the anti-Bush venom)

Helped Castro depose Bautista and welcome him with open opens rather than driving him to the communist. That was one of the major turning points for leftist in the Americas. We made Castro what he is today with our stupidity and fear of communisim. All those dominoes never fell and we wasted so much trying to prevent something destined to collapse in on itself from the Central, South America's, Asia and Caribbean.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by Wino

Helped Castro depose Bautista and welcome him with open opens rather than driving him to the communist. That was one of the major turning points for leftist in the Americas. We made Castro what he is today with our stupidity and fear of communisim. All those dominoes never fell and we wasted so much trying to prevent something destined to collapse in on itself from the Central, South America's, Asia and Caribbean.

One of the ironies of history being that the US never wanted to realize at the time and later on, that they practically invited the Soviet Union into the Carribean.
Subsequent embargos, boycotts and further restrictions having achieved nothing further than to cause Castro's lot to brutally tighten the reins in a frenzy of fear. Ironically also in as much as the US were pulling the rug from under Battista anyway who had become untenable.

None of this makes Fidel and his henchmen saints but with the Soviet threat removed by collapse of same Union what was and is the point of keeping the whole Cuban nation isolated any further? One of the major causes of commie regimes collapsing in the Eastern Bloc (after Soviet demise) was to let the people partake of the fleshpot products of the West. The more or less peaceful revolutions were about freedom as much as they were about obtaining baser comforts.

A common joke on Cuba, when somebody shouts "Socialismo o muerte" is the reply "No! Socialismo y muerte!".

But let BO loosen the ropes there and watch the domestic howl.

And yet the Prez who reacted to the Sandinistas deposing the Somoza scumbag by instigating the Iran-Contra issue (to arm and finance a bunch of far right wing killers) is considered by many a more tenable candidate for the Prize.

Because he did more for peace.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

These are things you seem to understand , good luck trying to explain to others . >f

it's one of the principle reasons noam chomsky has been dressed in the political red cape and horns by the right for the last 30 years, imo.....

the greatest irony to me was that clothing chain -banana republic- that kids loved for its casual styles and cool colors back in 80s and 90s

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by Wino

Helped Castro depose Bautista and welcome him with open opens rather than driving him to the communist. That was one of the major turning points for leftist in the Americas. We made Castro what he is today with our stupidity and fear of communisim. All those dominoes never fell and we wasted so much trying to prevent something destined to collapse in on itself from the Central, South America's, Asia and Caribbean.

That is very interesting. The only argument that I can give you is that Communism is worthy of fearing, but I cannot disagree with you about the paranoid way it was all going down.

You think if we had allied with Castro that he would not have embraced the Soviets?

Not sure that hindsight is 20/20, because I believe Castro was a Communist long before deposing Batista.

Anyway, it is an interesting point to ponder.

Should the US do anything in Honduras? Should we back the semi-legitimate Zeleya Communists or should we perhaps ignore it and allow to happen in our own hemisphere, the same situation we find in Darfur?