[lotuseclat79]

The Left Should Reclaim 'Freedom'.

There are few things in politics more annoying than the right's utter conviction that it owns the patent on the word "freedom" that when its leaders stand up for the rights of banks to be unregulated or capital gains to be untaxed, that it is actually and obviously standing up for human liberty, the noblest cause of them all.

-- Tom

[LANMaster]

Puleeeze. The left cuddles up with Dictators like Fidel Catro and Hugo Chavez, to the detriment of Columbian and Honduran democracies.

You picked a pretty poor time to unleash this spew.

Obama just threw our allies under the bus in favor of surrendering missile DEFENSE to the Russians.

Standing up for human liberty? Balderdash.

[LANMaster]

St Louis Honduran Community Plans Protest-- "Up With Freedom - Down with Marxism"

Yesterday was Honduras Independence Day.

188 years and they are still fighting for it.

Sadly, the US isn't so keen on their commitment to democracy. For the first time in history the United States government is siding with Marxist leaders Hugo Chavez, Daniel Ortega, Raul Castro and Evo Morales against the pro-democratic Honduran government of Roberto Micheletti.

Noble?

Nuance

Change

[iltos]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

St Louis Honduran Community Plans Protest-- "Up With Freedom - Down with Marxism"

Yesterday was Honduras Independence Day.

188 years and they are still fighting for it.

Sadly, the US isn't so keen on their commitment to democracy. For the first time in history the United States government is siding with Marxist leaders Hugo Chavez, Daniel Ortega, Raul Castro and Evo Morales against the pro-democratic Honduran government of Roberto Micheletti.

Noble?

Nuance

Change

don't forget every other nation in the OAS, who voted unanimously to cut off aid...

and actually, the outcry of the Honduran people is in favor of Zelaya....the referendum that got him in such hot water -IF it had even passed by a vote of the people- called for a constitutional convention to discuss the single term limitation on the presidency imposed in 1982 (for reasons that made a lot of sense at the time)....and the convention would have convened in 2010, AFTER Zelaya had stepped down.

western media has presented this as a "power grab" by Zelaya....as a disregard for the honduran constitution.....when it seems more like trying to open the door to a legitimate discussion about it.....

i always figured that was how a free political system was supposed to work.
pretty good article on the guy here

[Fyzbo]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...884495424.html

"What we're going to end up with is higher taxes, bigger government and less freedom for the American people," House Republican Leader John Boehner said on Fox News in July. "We're going to have a real fight for how much freedom we're going to have left in America."

It's amusing that now Republicans are trying to campaign for small government, when they consistently increased the size and power of government for the last eight years. Both parties do their best to accumulate power, they just differ in how they use it. Both sides have accused small government proponents of being anarchists.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by Fyzbo

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...884495424.html


It's amusing that now Republicans are trying to campaign for small government, when they consistently increased the size and power of government for the last eight years. Both parties do their best to accumulate power, they just differ in how they use it. Both sides have accused small government proponents of being anarchists.

Hiya Fyz,

I have complained against Bush's big government governance. Most true Conservatives have.

We could use another Ronald Reagan.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Puleeeze. The left cuddles up with Dictators like Fidel Catro and Hugo Chavez, to the detriment of Columbian and Honduran democracies.

You picked a pretty poor time to unleash this spew.

Obama just threw our allies under the bus in favor of surrendering missile DEFENSE to the Russians.

Standing up for human liberty? Balderdash.

I didn't follow the Chavez bit much but Fidel is out of it so it must be Raul they're cuddling up to. What raises me more is

Obama just threw our allies under the bus in favor of surrendering missile DEFENSE to the Russians.

The only allies that are getting their knickers (panties to you) in a twist about the missile shield being laid on ice are Poland and the Czechs. And they didn't give a hoot about Iranian attacks, they wanted it on their ground to poke Russia in the eye. And I can assure you that "old" Europe, i.e. those that are not only responsible for founding this Union but are keeping it alive today to the benefit of both Poles and Czechs who have contributed nothing but take it all right now, were heartily sick of being potentially involved in two fledgling's efforts to settle old scores. Tail wagging the dog thing.

Apart from which GWB's policy in this was excruciatingly stupid, as I've posted many times before, in that the shield was totally unnecessary and would have been far less effective than other options available. But nothing like giving the good old Poles (the new Europe) a kickback for having supported him in Iraq.

I'm holding my reservations on Obama but the reasons he stated for laying the shield on ice are the same that I posted here long before he came into office and I'm not a regular at either Langley or Dhzerzinsky Street.

BO's sense of reality may and can be debated in many fields but here it cannot. I know this theater over here and it's refreshing to see that finally Washington appears to know it too.

For a change.

[Fyzbo]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Hiya Fyz,

I have complained against Bush's big government governance. Most true Conservatives have.

We could use another Ronald Reagan.

Many conservatives complained about the government spending, but at the same time supported government restrictions on social policy like gay marriage, stem cells, and abortion. It's just big government creating and enforcing unnecessary laws.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

St Louis Honduran Community Plans Protest-- "Up With Freedom - Down with Marxism"

Yesterday was Honduras Independence Day.

188 years and they are still fighting for it.

Sadly, the US isn't so keen on their commitment to democracy. For the first time in history the United States government is siding with Marxist leaders Hugo Chavez, Daniel Ortega, Raul Castro and Evo Morales against the pro-democratic Honduran government of Roberto Micheletti.

Noble?

Nuance

Change

First off , your link is a joke , just right wing crap that has nothing to do with the common Honduran . You seem to be unable to understand the reality that people have to live with .
Thats understandable because you sit back rich and taken care of , reading rightwing rubbish .
Is it noble to suffer without medical care ? Is it noble to save 50cents a case on Banana and let people live without mediacl care , or the chance for education so they can take care of themselves ?. I guess I am asking is profit the most noble thing you can think of ?.
The Govt of Honduras sucks !. Just another banana republic , another corrupt company ran nation that gives not squat about its citizens .
The only decent healthcare the citizens have is from Cuba . The only real chance for education and training of medical professionals comes from Cuba . Honduras has been a welfare state for years ! depending on Cuba to supply the desperate needs of it citizens .
Where is the blessed America when the people of Honduras need help, real assist , the kind that means something to real people ? -- its not the Coffee /Banana industry , and it not the G-D CIA. providing it !
It not just Honduras , it bigger than that , but I doubt you have any idea what has went on for years --- other than what the rightwing tells you on your crackpot sites .
All those rightwing Govts , and the American right wing offer is words , liberty -- freedom --ect ect , with nothing of substance , just more bootlicking crooked leaders , more profit for the elite , and more suffering for the populations . Its all bullshat .
You should know just a little about what you speak --before you speak - IMO .
>f


HONDURAS REJECTS CUBAN MEDICAL TRAINING; THE UNDERSERVED ARE UNCONVINCED.
Despite a chronic inability to provide and deliver health and medical services to its impoverished population, Honduras has announced that it will reject more than half the medical-school scholarships Cuba has offered for the coming year. In accepting only 20 of the 45 scholarships offered
It is the 5000-member Colegio Medico, however, that controls the practice of medicine in the country. The colegio has come under criticism in the past for its reluctance to serve the rural poor or respond in times of crisis, most notably after the devastation of Hurricane Mitch in 1998 (see NotiCen, 1998-11-12).

Cuba's contribution to ameliorating the Honduran shortfall of medical coverage has been of unquestionable value to underserved patients. Since 1998, 400 Cuban doctors and nurses have worked in the regions where Honduran doctors are loath to go. More than 650 medical students, many from these poor populations, have studied medicine in Cuba, and some have already returned to serve their communities.

The island has maintained this assistance in the face of the Honduran government's general hostility to Cuba..........

The Cuban medical brigade in Honduras has, according to the Cuban Ministry of Public Health (MINSAP), performed more than 6 million medical consults in the past seven years, treating almost 87.5% of the population. MINSAP records show that during this period their doctors treated 2.6 million children, performed 119,493 surgical procedures, and attended 17,000 births. They gave 68,000 trainings in various disciplines and techniques for Honduran doctors and nurses and made 436,486 house calls, all as part of a preventive-medicine program that did not previously exist in Honduras. The 400 Cuban professionals in Honduras are a rotating cadre. This program, which includes the medical students, is provided without charge.

http://www.allbusiness.com/central-a.../400585-1.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cuba pushes its 'medical diplomacy'
The waiting room at Cuba's largest eye hospital, Pando Ferrer, is packed with patients.

Many come from across Latin America and the Caribbean, with everything paid for by the Cuban government.

Basil Ward is from Barbados and is in Havana to have a cataract removed for free.

"I could have had the operation in Barbados but I would have had to wait a year, there's a huge waiting list there," he says.

Others do not even have that choice; health facilities are almost non-existent or unaffordable in many of the poorest parts of the region.

Mr Ward is here under a programme called Operacion Milagro or Operation Miracle.

Launched five years ago, it has already helped restore sight to more than 1.6 million people.

Operation Miracle came out of an adult literacy programme which the Cubans were running in Venezuela.

They discovered that a lot of people could not read or write because they were unable to see properly.

"Fidel Castro always considered health a major priority so he asked us to devise a simple fast operation, a sort of miracle to restore people's sight," said Dr Marcelino Rio, director of the Pando Ferrer hospital and head of Operation Miracle.

The Cubans have turned mass production eye operations into a fine art. Pando Ferrer Hospital alone can perform 300 operations a day.

Treatments range from cataracts and glaucoma to corneal transplants.

Most of the equipment is European and Asian; US companies cannot sell to Cuba because of the trade embargo.

Cuba trains overseas medical students, sends tens of thousands of doctors abroad and has rapid response disaster assistance teams. These were sent to both China and Pakistan after their devastating earthquakes.

According to the Cuban authorities, there are 24,000 students from developing countries studying health care on the island. This includes 10,000 medical students enrolled at the prestigious Latin American Medical School (ELAM).

All receive full scholarships on the condition that, when qualified, they return home to work.

There are no figures available for what Cuba spends on its international medical programmes but it must account for a large part of this cash-strapped island's budget.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8059287.stm

[TooBad]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

The Left Should Reclaim 'Freedom'.

There are few things in politics more annoying than the right's utter conviction that it owns the patent on the word "freedom" that when its leaders stand up for the rights of banks to be unregulated or capital gains to be untaxed, that it is actually and obviously standing up for human liberty, the noblest cause of them all.

-- Tom

Considering that the left wants more and more government and bigger government = less freedom, your post is an oxymoron. The left's incessant whining about being tagged accurately for destroying freedom and the USA is getting tired. You want government, you own the destruction of freedom.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by Fyzbo

Many conservatives complained about the government spending, but at the same time supported government restrictions on social policy like gay marriage, stem cells, and abortion. It's just big government creating and enforcing unnecessary laws.

All have very little to do with government spending.

BTW, I believe that late term abortion is murder, and that innocent human life should be protected.

Unnecessary? Try to see it from my POV.

[Fyzbo]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

All have very little to do with government spending.

BTW, I believe that late term abortion is murder, and that innocent human life should be protected.

Unnecessary? Try to see it from my POV.

Freedom is not just about government spending. Besides it does cost money to enforce laws.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by Fyzbo

Freedom is not just about government spending. Besides it does cost money to enforce laws.

Money worth spending if we're talking about preventing murder.

[Fyzbo]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Money worth spending if we're talking about preventing murder.

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment.

Why do you support the government spending money to save unborn fetuses through laws and enforcement, but you don't support the government spending money on health care which will be used for prenatal care, birthing, etc. which could save unborn fetuses, babies, and mothers?

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by Fyzbo

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment.

Why do you support the government spending money to save unborn fetuses through laws and enforcement, but you don't support the government spending money on health care which will be used for prenatal care, birthing, etc. which could save unborn fetuses, babies, and mothers?

>f