[buffoon]

Originally Posted by TooBad

There are public schools where they have provided foot baths for Muslims to use for prayer, but praying to Christ is against school policy.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...-schools_N.htm

Yeah, it's a dilemma. I once had a Turkish guy working for me when building ocean going sailing yachts. Carpenter and a darn fine one at that. He was a fervent Muslim so we let him pray in a corner we'd set aside when the times of day had come. His problem was that his religion compelled him to pray repeatedly during the day and work time whereas the Christian religion of the others would make do with whatever time they chose at night. During Ramadan we put those jobs on the backlog for him that demanded too much physical effort. Being on the fast he tired quickly.
But he was too good a man to have to let him go so we accommodated.

Seems to me the cases stated in your above relate more to private enterprise and not to government bodies.

The acts of denying the Ten Commandments in courts and other official buildings, mostly State government BTW, is an act of demanding the removal of Freedom of religion and is preaching of godlessness in public.

Well it's the same over here but I wouldn't call it preaching godlessness. In fact nobody preaches anything at all. It's the secular nature of the state. Plenty of churches that people go to at mass time. Including judges, state employees and what have you.

Having religious symbols displayed in any public building wouldn't bother me in the least. But then it would have to be done for every religion and the Christians might take offense at the Jews who take offense at the Muslims who take offense at all of it and the atheists start shouting about having (any) religion shoved down their throat.

BTW, the Ten Commandments are prominently displayed in our Supreme Court.

Salomonic decision Probably works ok since they're part of all three monotheist religions. And the atheists actually accept them as well (when they think about it) and would be pretty egg faced in kicking up a stink about their display.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Yeah, it's a dilemma. I once had a Turkish guy working for me when building ocean going sailing yachts. Carpenter and a darn fine one at that. He was a fervent Muslim so we let him pray in a corner we'd set aside when the times of day had come. His problem was that his religion compelled him to pray repeatedly during the day and work time whereas the Christian religion of the others would make do with whatever time they chose at night. During Ramadan we put those jobs on the backlog for him that demanded too much physical effort. Being on the fast he tired quickly.
But he was too good a man to have to let him go so we accommodated.

Seems to me the cases stated in your above relate more to private enterprise and not to government bodies.

Well it's the same over here but I wouldn't call it preaching godlessness. In fact nobody preaches anything at all. It's the secular nature of the state. Plenty of churches that people go to at mass time. Including judges, state employees and what have you.

Having religious symbols displayed in any public building wouldn't bother me in the least. But then it would have to be done for every religion and the Christians might take offense at the Jews who take offense at the Muslims who take offense at all of it and the atheists start shouting about having (any) religion shoved down their throat.
Salomonic decision Probably works ok since they're part of all three monotheist religions. And the atheists actually accept them as well (when they think about it) and would be pretty egg faced in kicking up a stink about their display.

I have always thought that religios symbols in public buildings was fine --no big deal.
As far a Christian symbols , well, we do have a history of majority Christian belief in U.S. --so again --no problem . No sense trying to erase the symbolism , it is historical .
AND I agree with you , I have always thought tolerance of others beliefs was a virtue .
I have some very good friends {Islam} , adopted family {Jewish} , and was a raised Roman Catholic --- now a realist and they all tolerate me !
Now ? I am begining to wonder ????. I have heard a lot about the U.S. being a "Christian Nation" . I always thought a very rough version of a Democratic Republic !.
Seriously , this one thing makes me wonder . Whenever anyone starts to claim a nation is "Christian" "Islamic" "Jewish" --trouble will surely follow . If ignored , the worst always happens . I see the "christian zionist fundies " as the worst offenders in this regard .
So ,,, religion in political thought reminds me of children and a toy , arguing, whining , complaining , and eventually fighting over it . At that point you just take away the damn pretend toy --case closed.
IF , that were to happen ? what a blessing !. Religion would go back where it belongs -- churches , synagogues ,mosques ,places of worship , families and homes.
Would not that be wonderful ?
People just seen as , treated as tax-payers and fellow citizens --religion a private matter .. A great thing to lead by example, and show the Islamic /Jewish states how backward and evil their systems really are -not to mention make us safe from this crap ! .
Just my dream I guess . >f

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

.........Now ? I am begining to wonder ????. I have heard a lot about the U.S. being a "Christian Nation" . I always thought a very rough version of a Democratic Republic !.
Seriously , this one thing makes me wonder . Whenever anyone starts to claim a nation is "Christian" "Islamic" "Jewish" --trouble will surely follow . If ignored , the worst always happens . I see the "christian zionist fundies " as the worst offenders in this regard.................... .

Hi Fidel

I think that is exactly what the founding fathers had in mind. I recall a thread some time ago on whether the US are secular or not. It was fairly clearly established that they are. But secular was misunderstood by many in that thread.

There is basically no occidental society, state or nation that is not heavily influenced (did not take a large chunk of its identity) from Christianity. The founding fathers' take did not preclude that but supported it. They were all Christian.

But the founding fathers didn't have to look back as far as Rome and the constant conflict between Popes and worldly rulers. More recent English history clearly showed the predicament arising from church involving itself in politics and politics involving itself in church.

When religion involves itself in government it is no longer free but falls slave to pursuit of influence beyond the spiritual. Same thing when government tries to involve religion to further own political gains.

Where I live we had, til recently, a prime example of this predicament happening. To the detriment of all, society in general and religion in particular.

Freedom of religion means that everyone and anyone can choose but none (including government AND ONE particular religion) may superimpose upon others.

In this the founding fathers were wiser than any other nation founders that were around at the time. And they set an example for most of the Christian world, which bit by bit followed it.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Wait til you hear me on Shintoism

What a great response.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by 4EverRight

Well, Senator Snowe did me in today. She has made the health care proposal a bi-partisan package. Am I ever disappointed.

A single RINO doesn't equate to bipartisanship, you pretender.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Hi Fidel

I think that is exactly what the founding fathers had in mind. I recall a thread some time ago on whether the US are secular or not. It was fairly clearly established that they are. But secular was misunderstood by many in that thread.

There is basically no occidental society, state or nation that is not heavily influenced (did not take a large chunk of its identity) from Christianity. The founding fathers' take did not preclude that but supported it. They were all Christian.

But the founding fathers didn't have to look back as far as Rome and the constant conflict between Popes and worldly rulers. More recent English history clearly showed the predicament arising from church involving itself in politics and politics involving itself in church.

When religion involves itself in government it is no longer free but falls slave to pursuit of influence beyond the spiritual. Same thing when government tries to involve religion to further own political gains.

Where I live we had, til recently, a prime example of this predicament happening. To the detriment of all, society in general and religion in particular.

Freedom of religion means that everyone and anyone can choose but none (including government AND ONE particular religion) may superimpose upon others.

In this the founding fathers were wiser than any other nation founders that were around at the time. And they set an example for most of the Christian world, which bit by bit followed it.

Understood .
One of things that is important IMO -- is attitude of citizens .
There has to be point when people cease to define fellow citizens by religion { or lack of belief } , or political response is inevitable . Its people , the mass that enable the nuts .
My point is , anyone who who supports the idea that the U.S. is a Christian nation is automatically ignoring that it isn't , and never should be .
We , in the west are fortunate to as far away from that as we are .
I know a little Spanish history and it goes without saying --we both know the story. .
Actually although I have never been to Spain , I am from purely Spanish root , and was Catholic youth , it was a given.
I just believe in tolerance of religion , but never do I support bowing to it in reality ,or in politic . There are ALWAYS those who desire to make nation based on this stuff --never ends well --never will .>f