[Drabdr]

One of the things I enjoy frequenting the forum here is to discuss particular matters with a very intelligent group of folks. Issues such as torture, religion, gun ownership, etc. are issues which may not have an overnight answer, but nonetheless, cannot be stored in a box and put on a shelf.

I cannot begin to imagine why another human being would carry out the actions to murder another human being(s). I would surmise most other can't either; but we do imagine how best to handle the action afterwards.

I know no one has alluded to this, but just to be clear at least with me, being for the DP is not a 'kill em all, and let God sort them out' kind of mentality. I take every single, solitary case very seriously. The states that choose to have the DP darn well better take it more seriously than I.

I think every case should be thoroughly reviewed and given the most care possible.

Say there is a case where one or two people are just murdered, for whatever reason. The prosecution builds the case, there's a fair trial, and they find the verdict of guilty. The person goes to Death Row, and pretty much, an open and shut case. Why.... should society, tax payers (who comprise the victim's family) pay to keep the vermin around? As a society, let's be rid of that individual.

Now... there are lot's of cases that are not open and shut cases, and the wheels should be slowed, and every precaution taken.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

............ Why.... should society, tax payers (who comprise the victim's family) pay to keep the vermin around? As a society, let's be rid of that individual.........

Irrespective of whether one is pro or con DP this payment factor always keeps coming up and doesn't really do anything for the case, pro or con. Did you (did any of us) withhold that part of our taxes due that went into the financing of things we didn't like (say Iraq war but there are plenty of smaller issues which, added up, make for a lot more money spent on undesirable issues)?

Also the original premise by law makers (N.J. in this case) as mentioned in the first post was that Death Row inmates actually cost us more.

A murderer with life imprisonment here isn't kept going by MY taxes. The state (society) is kept going by OUR taxes and WE comprise that society.

[Wino]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

................................................I dropped the Rick Perry name, as I would not trust him to take out my trash. Saying, it would not surprise me anything he would screw up.

Although rare, we do sometime walk on common ground. As Bush rumoredly said as he left the governorship, "If you think I'm bad, wait til you see my replacement."

[Drabdr]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Irrespective of whether one is pro or con DP this payment factor always keeps coming up and doesn't really do anything for the case, pro or con. Did you (did any of us) withhold that part of our taxes due that went into the financing of things we didn't like (say Iraq war but there are plenty of smaller issues which, added up, make for a lot more money spent on undesirable issues)?

Also the original premise by law makers (N.J. in this case) as mentioned in the first post was that Death Row inmates actually cost us more.

A murderer with life imprisonment here isn't kept going by MY taxes. The state (society) is kept going by OUR taxes and WE comprise that society.

True points, and you are right. What I am viewing this from is a victim's perspective and justice.

I would not want to pay for a convicted murderer (not an accused) to breathe another day, if someone in my family was the victim. I want justice; that justice is to execute them like they did my family member.

However, without the DP, I pay for their meals, cable TV, library, etc. every day.... giving them a life they took from my family member.

You're right; it's a societal thing. But to me, part of society's decision in having the DP should keep in mind not only what is fair and humane, but what is Just to the victim.

[Drabdr]

Originally Posted by Wino

Although rare, we do sometime walk on common ground. As Bush rumoredly said as he left the governorship, "If you think I'm bad, wait til you see my replacement."

I don't know where the guy gets his power. There are a lot of people in the Republican Party (and I mean delegates and such) who do not like him.

Our state could do better.

[thingamajig]

Originally Posted by buffoon

A murderer with life imprisonment here isn't kept going by MY taxes. The state (society) is kept going by OUR taxes and WE comprise that society.

Bah, that would take all of the fun in criticizing government spending. The fact that we elected the idiots is hardly relevant.

Originally Posted by Drabdr

I don't know where the guy gets his power. There are a lot of people in the Republican Party (and I mean delegates and such) who do not like him.

Our state could do better.

The more extreme ... ahem ... I mean passionate are the most likely to go to the polls.

Originally Posted by Drabdr

Our state could do better.

You mean like Dubya?

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by Wino

Although rare, we do sometime walk on common ground. As Bush rumoredly said as he left the governorship, "If you think I'm bad, wait til you see my replacement."

LOL It doesn't matter what the subject is, it always comes back to Bush for you.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by buffoon

I'm gonna have to start a list.

Great passport photo of yours BTW. Exactly matches what I thought.

LOL I figured the Count Buffenstein matched the Halloween theme.

LOL @ passport photo.

[Drabdr]

Not sure why... but I got to thinking about you tonight, Mulder. How is everyone doing? Any progress on the trial and all? I know there are things you can't talk about and all.

Anyway... like I said... just thinking about ya.

[valis]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

just thinking about ya.

that, my friend, will get you in loads of trouble. Just look at what happened to me.






j/k, the both of you.

[Drabdr]

Originally Posted by valis

that, my friend, will get you in loads of trouble. Just look at what happened to me.






j/k, the both of you.

I was about to ask... What did you get yourself into this time?

[LauraMJ]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

I was about to ask... What did you get yourself into this time?

Don't even go there.

[Drabdr]

Originally Posted by valis

that, my friend, will get you in loads of trouble. Just look at what happened to me.






j/k, the both of you.

Originally Posted by LauraMJ

Don't even go there.

Oh.. yea. I forgot about that.... Mulder seems to bring the sweet side out of folks!

[RSM123]

Originally Posted by Drabdr

I know no one has alluded to this, but just to be clear at least with me, being for the DP is not a 'kill em all, and let God sort them out' kind of mentality. I take every single, solitary case very seriously. The states that choose to have the DP darn well better take it more seriously than I.

I too am very much a member of the hang 'em and flog'em brigade ... even if flogging those being hanged is seen as excessive

I think every case should be thoroughly reviewed and given the most care possible.

You would think that that would be a given, particularly with advances in dna analysis and the increasing proliferation of cctv cameras in cities.

Say there is a case where one or two people are just murdered, for whatever reason. The prosecution builds the case, there's a fair trial, and they find the verdict of guilty. The person goes to Death Row, and pretty much, an open and shut case. Why.... should society, tax payers (who comprise the victim's family) pay to keep the vermin around? As a society, let's be rid of that individual.

But there is the rub ... how long to keep them around ? We here in the UK read occasionally about a murderer in Texas, Cali, etc ... going to 'The Chair' or being sent for a lethal injection - for a murder they committed in the 1980s. When we had the DP, I recall reading that the average time from sentencing to execution was something like 25 days. Not much room for an appeal there.

Even in the communist East Germany there was a policy of mandatory sentencing to 25 years jail for a single murder ( with no parole) ... and the DP being applied for killers of two or more. (Bullet in base of skull, and carried out a few days later.)

Now... there are lot's of cases that are not open and shut cases, and the wheels should be slowed, and every precaution taken.

Since it is in the news, how about Amanda Knox, american exchange student from Seattle ?

Amanda Knox: 'Foxy Knoxy' was an innocent abroad, say US supporters

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6736...upporters.html

She had a fair trial, the murder was two years ago, so plenty of time to interview witnesses, refute evidence, cross examine ...yet she's a victim - as if Italy is some tinpot dictatorship where they beat you until you confess.

Lucky for her she got 26 years not an appointment with the hangman as an italian similarly convicted in Tx. would.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by RSM123

I too am very much a member of the hang 'em and flog'em brigade ... even if flogging those being hanged is seen as excessive

That would depend a bit on the time line, wouldn't it. I mean flogging AFTER hanging seems uneconomical. BEFORE shows merit

Amanda Knox: 'Foxy Knoxy' was an innocent abroad, say US supporters

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6736...upporters.html

Yeah, all our little Amandas and the likes. I can't remember the name of that Brit girl who got charged for manslaughter for having supposedly maltreated a baby in her care in NY. Her home town and the Brit press went bananas at the US justice system. They way they all went on one would have thought she was gonna get hung and flogged in Saudi. German kid boy get himself arrested in Turkey (Antalya?) for having had sex with a minor. The minor was a Brit girl whose mother had reported him. Here the (German) press could have itself a double field day. The Turkish system AND the British. Notably the mother who had let her daughter run around at three o' clock in the morning unattended for this to happen. And, of course, the girl had lied. While they were at it they also covered how Brit kids are all long since gone morally south anyway. The lad of course was totally innocent. Guess he just bumped into her unwittingly and his flies happened to be open.
Lovely.

She had a fair trial, the murder was two years ago, so plenty of time to interview witnesses, refute evidence, cross examine ...yet she's a victim - as if Italy is some tinpot dictatorship where they beat you until you confess.

You mean it's not. Seriously, they couldn't care less about any sort of sexual antics, not with THAT leader running the country. But the snuff part is where they get really old fashioned.

Lucky for her she got 26 years not an appointment with the hangman as an italian similarly convicted in Tx. would.

Lucky for her she wasn't an exchange student in Tx.