[Mulderator]

Yesterday I got the worst telephone call of my life. My younger brother (I have two) called and told me that my other brother's ex-wife and his 21 year old daugther were murdered in their home--both shot in the head with a shot-gun. You can read the story here if you are interested:

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/n...cc4c03286.html

Still being quite in shock, it hasn't really set in yet because I am going back to New Jersey on Saturday--the funerals are on Monday and haven’t been involved in the grief—have not yet even spoken to my brother. I am sort of just numb not really feeling much at all--not unusual at all for me as I have a difficult time "feeling" things until I have had time to process it all--I know some won't understand while others will completely understand.

Anyway--I am now like it or not a family member of a "victim" of a violent crime. Obviously not near as much a victim as my brother who has lost one of his two daughters and my niece who has lost her mother and her sister in a violent and brutal manner.

In any event, and very unfortunately, the Legislature in New Jersey repealed the death penalty two years ago--becoming the first state in the nation to do so--I knew that already but did not know how much of an effect it would have on me personally. You can read the story here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121301302.html

My position on it had been for a long time that because the cost of housing death row inmates was more than life in prison, that we'd be better off with it abolished from an economic standpoint. But from a moral standpoint, I also understood how powerful it could be to serve as vindication to the family members. Having now been forced into that position, I can tell you that from a personal perspective I am outraged that New Jersey has abolished the death penalty. This evil ba$tard deserves to be tortured and then killed (he shot them both in the head with a shotgun so that there can be no viewing as their faces have been blow away).

My family has been told by the prosecutors they will seek life without parole. In thinking about that, I suddenly realized that there will be no plea bargain. Why in the world would this piece of garbage scumbag ever plead guilty when that's the worse he can do at trial??? That made me realize I had never considered that aspect of abolition of the death penalty--in other words, how much will it cost society in all the extra trials and all the added cost for all the prisoners who would have plead guilty to life without parole to avoid the death penalty? Googling it, I found many articles stating ". . . pleads guilty to life without parole; avoids death penatly!" I also found this: http://www.cjlf.org/papers/wpaper09-01.pdf from 2009 which states this issue has never really been studied before--it is not even mentioned in the article regarding New Jersey's decision to abolish it--that issue needs to be studied to determine the economic cost of all the extra trials that will result if no death penalty exists such that the prosecutors have nothing to offer an accused with which to bargain for a plea.

And what about the torture this is going to cause my family and other families that will be forced to sit through a trial--capital cases often last for many weeks and into months--especially high profile ones such as this. Many of these trials that would not have gone forward if the death penalty existed will go forward since there is no carrot to use to obtain the accused’s agreement to spend life in prison without parole.

I wanted to give my perspective because I think anyone that has not thought this through needs to consider or re-consider the effect of the death penalty both economically (i.e., will it end up costing society more) and also in terms of the trauma that victim's families must live through during a murder trial. It is hell on earth for family members to sit through trials for weeks and months. I honestly would be satisfied to see this dirt bag get life in prison without parole but I'd much rather see it by plea bargain than to go through the circus of a trial.

[Mulderator]

Anyway--I will try to report back with details as they come up as I am sure many of you would like to know what happens with this whole thing. I never dreamed that this kind of thing would ever happen in my family. I think it would be absolutely unbearable if it had happened to one of my own children--I don't know how my brother is going to get through this--how does a person reason through this or come to grips with it???

At the moment its a surreal feeling. I was at work today mainly because I don't know what else to do while I wait for Saturday (although I didn't really do much). I acted pretty normally---you'd never have known anything was wrong if I hadn't told you--I joked with people--I went to a business dinner that had already been planned--tried not to think about it--joked and laughed with some people there as if nothing had happened and nothing was wrong.

I'm not sure I really believe it yet consciously as I still don't feel anything--just analyzing it like I would a legal issue. WTF is that? Has anyone been through something like this or similar where you didn't seem to even acknowledge it or feel it?

Well here's something odd--I and my youngest daughter are coming Saturday to Philly--my wife is coming in Saturday to Newark (that flight had been planned before this happened). My other daughter is coming to Philly from Santa Barbara--we are all coming in at about the same time--all flying in 3 different planes all accross the country all at the same time. And yet another daughter is coming in Sunday on a different plane! 5 people, 4 planes--WTF???

I guess I am rambling a bit but I have nothing else to do as I sit here just waiting!!! Not sure what I am waiting for though!!!

[buffoon]

This is a terrible tragedy. My condolences to you and all your family (one of those instances where words are not adequate, however hard one tries).

[Stoner]

My condolences to you and your family.

[Paquadez]

My deep, sincere and heartfelt condolences Chris.

What a dreadful thing.

As already said, words are really empty at times such as this.

Vaya a Dios !

[foremanjr]

My condolences too you and your familily Mulderator.

[Drabdr]

Mulder, I cannot imagine the grief that your family is carrying right now. I'll be thinking of you.

[iltos]

this is horrible news chris....
it leaves me numb just hearing of it


we mods have been asked if CD is the appropriate place for this....but this part of TSG is your "home" here....if there are no objections, i'd like it to stay here

[LANMaster]

Hi Chris.

My heart goes out to you and your Brother. Truly this is something no family should have to face.

I want to speak on the topic of the death penalty, but I am finding it hard to compartmentalize the issue apart from the grief that you are obviously dealing with.

But I will try.

I used to be a very strong proponent of the death penalty, until I found out that 117 people sentenced to death were later proven innocent of the murders for which they were convicted.

I fully support capital punishment for the GUILTY of heinous crimes, and in the case of your Sister in law and your Neice, I can definitely consider the crime heinous enough to consider it worthy of capital punishment. In fact, I would even support the death penalty for serial pedophiles who haven't killed anyone, as I feel that is just as heinous.

But I want you to ponder 2 possibilities that you may not have considered.
I did not visit your links, so there may be details of which I am unaware. So please don't jump me if I got something wrong.

1. What if the wrong person is convicted of the crime?
It truly HAS happened. Is there video evidence or at least 3 credible witnesses who saw the crime committed?
Would there be any more closure obtained if the wrong person was put to death?

2. What if the killer turns out to be your Brother? I know it is not something that you would wish to ponder, but it happens more often than you might know. Could you support the DP for a brother? Even if he were guilty?

With regard to forgiveness of the death penalty, I believe that only the family of the victim can make such a call. But for the sake of the community, people convicted of heinous murder should spend the rest of their life in jail without any possibility of parole. That way, if it turns out down the road that evidence surfaces of someone else responsible for the crime, then at least you haven't killed the wrong person.


Once again, Chris, I can only imagine the pain and anger that you must be feeling, and my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family at this difficult time.

It was suggested that this thread be moved to either announcements or CD, but I think I will just leave it here for now, or let another Mod make that decision. Mulder put it here, so this is where it should stay, at least for now, IMO.

[LauraMJ]

I'm sorry, Mulder....I'm sorry this has happened to your family. I'll be praying for you and your whole family.

And for what it's worth, I've always agreed with the death penalty for certain crimes.

[Jonesiegirl]

My heart goes out to you and your family, Mulder. Tender hugs to you and yours.

And for the perpetrator... fry, you scum bag!

Laura... Papa is especially fond of the jerk who did this. I'm trying to wrap my brain around that one.

[SlackAli]

Really sorry to read the above Chris. Truly terrible news for you and your family.

[wacor]

Chris you have my sincere condolences. I know what this is like. My uncle was murdered back in the early 70's.

[valley]

I'm sorry Mully. Like Laura, i've always supported the death penalty for crimes like this. Let him meet his Maker now rather than have society take care of him for 50 years. Its not fair for your family to spend the rest of their lives knowing this guy gets to live after planning and killing 2 people in your family.

I'm so so sorry. Praying for your family and for your brother especially.

[sweets1981]

Chris,
I'm sorry for you and your family's loss!