[buffoon]

Originally Posted by thingamajig

Perhaps because such misplaced anit-American sentiment is alive and well today?

I read plenty of forum posts that present that the world's problems were all created by America without the posters including their own country's complacency in the mix. From the cultural threads to economic threads, It's not an old tired attack on the USA. So, I see some reminders of the past as very relevant. Thanks for some hints on how to respond JohnWill.

I agree in that too few of us still remember that we'd all be speaking German (briefly) and then later Russian (more permanently). Where the former wouldn't have been a problem since I speak it, I would have been loath to use it exclusively and Russian really isn't all that melodious to want to learn it.

But the past is the past. The US is sadly no longer the model for admiration that it was in the post war years over here. For the younger generation(s) Omaha Beach was somewhere around the time of the Battle of Hastings.

And the "diplomacy" shown by GWB's crowd (Rumsfeld was a darling) hasn't really improved matters.

Which shows that the average Western European can be as unreflecting and simplistic as anyone else. The average Eastern is a bit different in that he trusts the US more than he trusts either France, Italy, Germany or England. Not surprisingly since the former three had a past habit of invading him/her and the latter a habit of standing aside.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

I know a little history , some the differences in foreign policies between France and U.S.

I won't stand for this kind of modesty, you actually know a lot of history.

The Russians made contribution also , tied up 80 % of Nazi forces , and lost more people

.....Overall the Russians lost some 20 million upwards as opposed to total 7 million German losses. Military and civilians both cases.

How many did the Western Allies lose?

Still glad though that Russian didn't become my main language.

[thingamajig]

And I thought I would make a game of this by continuing the responses... instead, perhaps, I'll visit another country for no other purpose but to criticize my host.

Originally Posted by Paquadez

Oh no!

Not another "How we won World War Two by the Yanks" thread.

Try to keep up with the current topic...

Originally Posted by Paquadez

And inconveniently lost the peace................

The "Yanks" weren't alone in responsible for the peace. But having a scapegoat is certainly convenient for some.

Originally Posted by Paquadez

Such as what and when??

Besides the virginity of some young Iraqi girls?

How about AMEC, Aegis Defence Services, Petrel Resources, HSBC, Cummins UK, PB Power, Control Risks, MerchantBridge, Global Strategies Group, etc.

Originally Posted by Paquadez

And why is the US in Afghanistan?

Why is the UK in Afghanistan? This is all in another thread. Try to keep up.

Originally Posted by Paquadez

It's the oil (And gas) pipeline, stoopid!

Wow, you have all the answers that seem to elude everyone else. A pipeline in Afghanistan? Are you "stoopid"?

Originally Posted by Paquadez

So......the Brits and the French did nothing in Desert Storm?

The Brits and French were never needed. We are happy to have Europe's support but lets call a token force what it is why don't we? Let me know when you actually want to contribute.

Originally Posted by Paquadez

Err, sorry to be picky, but precisely who sponsored one Osama Bin Laden??

Sorry to be picky, but who colonized the region and made a mess of it? Which nation was the first to use chemical weapons against the Kurds? Who started the mess in Vietnam? Who carved the boundaries ignoring ethnic lines. There is plenty of blame to go around.

Originally Posted by Paquadez

You guys cannot even supervise a "Democractic" election properly and prevent the main (Your puppet) preferred leader and his gang from cheating so overtly, there is now a global furore!

Excellent management old chap.................

It's not our job to supervise the elections. Your post is a living, breathing, typing example of my comments about NATO. Unless you are a BOT.

It's "furor" and I am not and will never be an "old chap".

Originally Posted by Paquadez

Which is quite probably why waiters in Paris can't understand Americans......

I have had no problems in Paris. Speak for yourself, "old chap".

Originally Posted by Paquadez

Not as bad as becoming a mix of an Hispanic state run by smart Asians.

I'm not racist but what you describe sounds better than leadership by the Brits - preferring half Kenyan instead.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by buffoon

I won't stand for this kind of modesty, you actually know a lot of history.

.....Overall the Russians lost some 20 million upwards as opposed to total 7 million German losses. Military and civilians both cases.

How many did the Western Allies lose?

Still glad though that Russian didn't become my main language.

Actually the exact numbers are point of debate with some , but they are horrific .
Just a approx off of top of head -- I always believed in round numbers so ...dont hold me to them .
The US military killed numbered around 400,000. in all . Maybe a couple of thousand civilians.
British loss was only slightly less , maybe 375,000 ? . Civilian loss was approx 75,000.
Russian military loss approx 10 or more million --with another possible 12 million civilians .The true numbers there will never be known , Russian record keeping was non-exsistent .

This of course does not include our other allies who in some case lost over a 100 thousand soldiers {Poland }, but it does give a idea of what was sacrificed .
When the allies invaded France on D-day , fully 80 % of German resources were committed in the east , had it not been so ............ a different outcome . I doubt invasion would have been even considered . All the allies made contribution , but the real slug-out , most of the hard fighting and killing was done in the east.

On another subject , I always heard that Spain lost over 600,000 total dead in long war against Fascists and Nazis . Although not WW-2 it was indeed the beginning . I have not idea how many were soldiers and how many were Fascists ? .
I do remember as boy , hearing horror stories from old family members !. None was there but they sure liked to talk about it !
I always wondered why we { all of west } stood by , failed to lend a hand against the Fascist /Nazi in Spain ? . It would not have taken much . >f

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

......When the allies invaded France on D-day , fully 80 % of German resources were committed in the east , had it not been so ............ a different outcome . I doubt invasion would have been even considered . All the allies made contribution , but the real slug-out , most of the hard fighting and killing was done in the east.

What German forces there were defending the beaches, most of them were actually semi-fit due to one ailment or the other which kept them from the Eastern front. Nothing to incapacitate them but they were mostly not crack troops. There were crack tank and infantry regiments and SS further inland who til the last moment didn't know where they would have to go (most still expected the landing further North in the Pas de Calais) and there was virtually no air force.

You're right, Germany's back had been broken at Stalingrad. It was the beginning of the end. From there on it was a retreating battle with the lion's share of German forces deployed towards the East.

On another subject , I always heard that Spain lost over 600,000 total dead in long war against Fascists and Nazis . Although not WW-2 it was indeed the beginning . I have not idea how many were soldiers and how many were Fascists ? .

A lot of them were executions committed by whoever had just gained territory. Both sides committed great atrocities but the Francoists far more than the People's Front Government. And retributions by the Francoists continued after the Civil War for years.

I do remember as boy , hearing horror stories from old family members !. None was there but they sure liked to talk about it !

It is said that there is no nation better than the Spanish when they are good and no nation worse when they are bad. In this conflict the whole nation disgraced itself, irrespective of where its members had stood.

I always wondered why we { all of west } stood by , failed to lend a hand against the Fascist /Nazi in Spain ? . It would not have taken much . >f

It was a time of reluctance to interfere anywhere by anyone.
WWI had just passed by mere 18 years and that had been the war to end all wars (or so one thought). Chamberlain's Britain was appeasing and the US were never going to get into anything like that at all (they thought). In fact it took Pearl Harbor to turn the tide of public opinion.

But notably many volunteers ventured out to Spain to fight for the Republic and against fascism. The Abraham Lincoln brigade is well remembered here. Most of whose members, after returning stateside, were to be accused of communism at a later date.

Most nations remained neutral and set up an embargo against both war factions. But Germany and Italy could use the whole shebang as a testing field for its war machinery and for things to come. The Luftwaffe did its first "real condition" practice run on Guernica

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by thingamajig

And I thought I would make a game of this by continuing the responses... instead, perhaps, I'll visit another country for no other purpose but to criticize my host.



Try to keep up with the current topic...



The "Yanks" weren't alone in responsible for the peace. But having a scapegoat is certainly convenient for some.



Besides the virginity of some young Iraqi girls?

How about AMEC, Aegis Defence Services, Petrel Resources, HSBC, Cummins UK, PB Power, Control Risks, MerchantBridge, Global Strategies Group, etc.



Why is the UK in Afghanistan? This is all in another thread. Try to keep up.



Wow, you have all the answers that seem to elude everyone else. A pipeline in Afghanistan? Are you "stoopid"?



The Brits and French were never needed. We are happy to have Europe's support but lets call a token force what it is why don't we? Let me know when you actually want to contribute.



Sorry to be picky, but who colonized the region and made a mess of it? Which nation was the first to use chemical weapons against the Kurds? Who started the mess in Vietnam? Who carved the boundaries ignoring ethnic lines. There is plenty of blame to go around.



It's not our job to supervise the elections. Your post is a living, breathing, typing example of my comments about NATO. Unless you are a BOT.

It's "furor" and I am not and will never be an "old chap".



I have had no problems in Paris. Speak for yourself, "old chap".



I'm not racist but what you describe sounds better than leadership by the Brits - preferring half Kenyan instead.

Hey, how 'bout all of us getting together and insulting the Swiss?
Darn neutrals.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by Paquadez

Not as bad as becoming a mix of an Hispanic state run by smart Asians.

...or as being a mix of Germanics and some Celts last invaded and colonized by the French

Admittedly Norsemen originally but so francophoned and francophiled that by then one could hardly call them Norwegian anymore William the Conknut's real name was Guillaume

I remember that time in the UN when all this Iraq war, yes or no, discussion was going on and the issue of the GWB Admin having divided Europe into new and old. The British representative (forget who it was by name) responded that Britain was a very old country founded by the French.

The puzzlement on some of the Yank faces had me in tears

[buffoon]

Before the impression becomes entrenched that I always ridicule the French, I love them and their country to bits. That's why I also love joshing them and its more fun doing it on the spot and face to face. Haven't met one yet not having as much fun as I do, probably more.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by buffoon

What German forces there were defending the beaches, most of them were actually semi-fit due to one ailment or the other which kept them from the Eastern front. Nothing to incapacitate them but they were mostly not crack troops. There were crack tank and infantry regiments and SS further inland who til the last moment didn't know where they would have to go (most still expected the landing further North in the Pas de Calais) and there was virtually no air force.

You're right, Germany's back had been broken at Stalingrad. It was the beginning of the end. From there on it was a retreating battle with the lion's share of German forces deployed towards the East. A lot of them were executions committed by whoever had just gained territory. Both sides committed great atrocities but the Francoists far more than the People's Front Government. And retributions by the Francoists continued after the Civil War for years.
It is said that there is no nation better than the Spanish when they are good and no nation worse when they are bad. In this conflict the whole nation disgraced itself, irrespective of where its members had stood.
It was a time of reluctance to interfere anywhere by anyone.
WWI had just passed by mere 18 years and that had been the war to end all wars (or so one thought). Chamberlain's Britain was appeasing and the US were never going to get into anything like that at all (they thought). In fact it took Pearl Harbor to turn the tide of public opinion.

But notably many volunteers ventured out to Spain to fight for the Republic and against fascism. The Abraham Lincoln brigade is well remembered here. Most of whose members, after returning stateside, were to be accused of communism at a later date.

Most nations remained neutral and set up an embargo against both war factions. But Germany and Italy could use the whole shebang as a testing field for its war machinery and for things to come. The Luftwaffe did its first "real condition" practice run on Guernica

Yes , and even though there was some aid , it was small . The Russian sent no where near the 20,000 Nazi , or suffiecent number of aircraft .
The Abraham Lincoln brigade is legendary , a proud moment for America , the first real resistance to the Fascist .
Later , the volunteer pilots to fight for Britain , same thing . Good people way ahead of their Govts
Spain should have been first place to fight the SOB's , but for me ,that is looking with hindsight , some seen the light early on.
I remember a quote , or a rough version of it from the famous George Orwell who served with the Republicans , when he returned from war . It went something like this , maybe not exact , " England sleeping , sleeping , sleeping that deep sleep that I fear we will not wake from --until we hear the roar of bombs "
Smart man ! he was absolutely correct . You kill fascists at every and earliest opportunity .
When you fail to step on their throats , they will step on yours
At any rate , Franco is dead , the Falange is dead , and Spain has moved happily forward .
I have never visited , but my wife has visited Spain on two occaision , and was very impressed--much change . A country that is progressing , modernizing , and a people very much "alive" , as she puts it . >f

[RSM123]

Originally Posted by buffoon

I agree in that too few of us still remember that we'd all be speaking German (briefly) and then later Russian (more permanently).

But the past is the past. The US is sadly no longer the model for admiration that it was in the post war years over here. For the younger generation(s) Omaha Beach was somewhere around the time of the Battle of Hastings.

Obama Beach surely. Gordon said it, so it must be so.

[Paquadez]

Originally Posted by thingamajig

It's "furor"

Not according to the English Oxford Dictionary it aint!

Here: you can even check it out on Google for free!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...meta=&aq=f&oq=

I haven't a clue where all your other whittering nonsense was headed.

Shame it couldn't respond to my own earlier response.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by thingamajig

There is plenty of blame to go around.

and heroes, too....

this post ain't about you, thingy.....anymore than anyone else who's thinking that the sound of a pin dropping can somehow be equated to getting through the 21st century -or that filling up the silence surrounding that sound is gonna prove anything either....your quote is just a jumping off point for my comment....

which is.....

what IS this thread about, anyway?

respect?
pecking order?
acquiesence?

i don't get it.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by iltos

and heroes, too....

this post ain't about you, thingy.....anymore than anyone else who's thinking that the sound of a pin dropping can somehow be equated to getting through the 21st century -or that filling up the silence surrounding that sound is gonna prove anything either....your quote is just a jumping off point for my comment....

which is.....

what IS this thread about, anyway?

respect?
pecking order?
acquiesence?

i don't get it.

Well it seems nobody wanted to follow my suggestion of insulting the Swiss. But why the alternative should consist of insulting the Italian town of Furore on the Amalfi coast is quite beyond me. It's quite a pretty town.

I don't get it,


either.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by RSM123

Obama Beach surely. Gordon said it, so it must be so.

Gordon who?
Gordon of Khartoum?

[thingamajig]

Originally Posted by Paquadez

Not according to the English Oxford Dictionary it aint!

Here: you can even check it out on Google for free!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...meta=&aq=f&oq=

I knew Google shouldn't have opened an office in London. You can check out the original uncensored Google for free also.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c...oq=&aqi=g-p1g9

Originally Posted by iltos

what IS this thread about, anyway?

That's a trick question! The answer depends on the reader.

Originally Posted by buffoon

Well it seems nobody wanted to follow my suggestion of insulting the Swiss.

The Swiss aren't here to participate. So, how about Spaniards? Sometimes the bull wins... that's the only punch line I know. Where are the Argentinians when you need them?

Oh, never mind, Spanish daughters are just too scary!