[aka Brett]

A very busy man....I do hope it is night there and they were empty

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

A very busy man....I do hope it is night there and they were empty

Daytime Sunday. So Friday prayers and Shabbath were already done with.

Guess it was the Christians' turn.

[aka Brett]

premeditated?

[Drabdr]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Just returned from burning one (plus a mosque, plus a synagogue)

You've heard Gallagher on the subject, haven't you?

I don't understand how a forest fire can start from a simple thing like a match. I can't get my hibachi lit with kerosene and hand grenades!

[iltos]

dang!!!....pretty naive, i guess, to imagine that the census bureau or the somebody else in the fed has any idea how many muslims are currently employed by them.

but i found out some pretty interesting tidbits about muslims in america....the most interesting one for this thread is that american muslims have become more politically active

Although Muslims have been in the United States for more than a century, they have mostly lived on the margins of its political life. On the one hand, their small numbers, ethnic diversity, and lack of experience in playing the democratic game have impeded their political integration. On the other hand, the inertia of traditional American antipathy toward Arabs and Muslims and the political and religious domestic interests of both the Zionist lobby and the Christian Right have managed to keep them out of the mainstream. Their reluctance to participate in the democratic process was finally put aside during the 2000 presidential election, when a coalition of Arab-American and Muslim political action groups launched a voter registration drive, endorsed the Bush-Cheney ticket, and contributed financially to the Republican party.http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journ...21.2haddad.pdf

this is echoed on the democratic side as well
http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=237280&nid=213

The number of Muslim delegates to this year's {'04} Democratic National Convention has grown by 60 percent. Forty Muslim delegates, including a Maryland woman, are representing 20 states at the 2004 convention, up from 25 Muslims -- and no Marylanders -- at the Democratic convention four years ago.......
.......About 0.9 percent of all 4,332 convention delegates this year are Muslim, compared to 0.75 to 2.25 percent of the U.S. population.

still....

"There has been a historic and unprecedented under-representation of Muslims in government in America, from the county to the federal level," said Saqib Ali of North Potomac, Md., a computer engineer active with the nonpartisan Montgomery County Muslim Council.

"We have been a politically immature community," said Ali, who attended a reception for the Maryland delegation as Malik's guest. {Malik -a muslim- was one of Maryland's newly selected delegates at the '04 convention}

The terrorist attacks "jolted people out of their complacency," he said

i'd imagine that -despite the fears running aroung in america after 911- that Malik and Ali are representative of devout american muslims

"Liberty is for everybody," Malik said. "Unless we do get involved in this political process, our voices won't be heard."

Ali feels Muslim communities take on political power when they band together.

"Organizing a community is itself a political act," he said. "We're going to go and serve our country as Americans and as Muslims, and there's no contradiction in that."

so.....i got to wondering what the concerns of muslims are here
the effects of islamophobia tops the list....both from the standpoint that some groups are inclined to condemn all muslims

Muslims in U.S. feel unfairly implicated by government:

“It’s not a guilt complex; it’s the stigma of being a Muslim and constantly having to defend religion,” said Edina Lekovic, the communications director for the Muslim Public Affairs Council. “It causes people to give up and say, ‘Why should I bother? No one likes me. Why should I keep trying?’”

http://www.macon.com/147/story/882648.html

and from the standpoint that islamphobia in this country is feeding the very thing it most fears

U.S. prisons becoming Islam battleground-(% of Muslims in US prisons higher than general population)

"Prisons continue to be fertile ground for extremists who exploit both a prisoner's conversion to Islam while still in prison, as well as their socio-economic status and placement in the community upon their release," FBI director Robert Mueller said Feb. 16 {'05} to the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee......
......"They don't care about Osama bin Laden," said Imam Talib Abdur Rashid, who worked for years as a chaplain in New York state's prison system. "They have their own beefs that have nothing to do with shariah (Islamic law), the Taliban or Wahhabism, and everything to do with slavery, segregation and the history of U.S. racism."....
......Some inmates become Muslim in name only......but for some prisoners, the change is authentic, and correctional officials say Islamic observance actually helps them maintain prison security.

Said Anthony Windle, who converted to Islam at Rikers Island while awaiting trial on a drug conspiracy charge: "The more you learn, the harder it is for somebody to feed you untruths and lead you in the wrong direction."

Duval Rafq, who was convicted of rape and became Muslim two years into his Connecticut prison sentence, said converting led him to accept responsibility for his crime. Released five years ago, he worships at Masjid Al-Islam in New Haven, and works while attending night school for heating and refrigeration repair.

"My behavior all of a sudden changed and other people's attitude and behavior toward me changed," Rafq said.

Despite such success stories, some lawmakers and analysts remain convinced that radical Muslim chaplains, prison volunteers and Muslim prison outreach organizations are escaping notice of law enforcement - and they note that just one militant inmate could create enormous risk.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1416712/posts

so....islamophobia -the very thing seen in the source material at the start of this thread- tops the list....a definitely two edged scimitar

second is religious practices in the workplace, and if you read this longish article it points out just how different muslim needs are from "everybody else".....and here, the idea of "devout" takes on a whole different meaning: the article talks a bit about ways to respect the different practices of muslims, and frankly, it don't sound like no big deal in the far more fluid workplace of the 21st century.

but that's just me.

i've said it before....it is our fears that threatened to do the most damage in this difficult situation....a tragety greater even than the loss of all those innocent lives on 911 would be that their deaths are remembered as the day americans decided the freedom and equality under the law was just too big of a risk.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by iltos

i've said it before....it is our fears that threatened to do the most damage in this difficult situation....a tragety greater even than the loss of all those innocent lives on 911 would be that their deaths are remembered as the day americans decided the freedom and equality under the law was just too big of a risk.

So true . Islamic or other fanatics cannot defeat the U.S. , limit our freedoms , or make us give up our liberty. Only the fearful --radical -- or stupid can do that .
Unfortunately , there are many who are already either supporting the idea , or considering it as possibility . I have seen that right here on this site .
I would have never thought this nation principals were standing on such shaky foundation.!

Let me create a scenario and demonstrate just how vulnerable our nation , our rights and liberty really are .
Lets say three radical Islamic nutcases get together and hatch a plan . Say ,,, attacks on both coasts that take ...20..maybe a 100 lives . Or worse yet , crash a aircraft into a public building . What do think would happen next ! .
There would be people frothing at mouth , screaming, demanding , to give up our rights ,,and our way of life . In this case who would be the more danger to our country , the Radicals ,who we could hang ?, or the crack-pot citizens who have no appreciation of the liberty they enjoy ?.
I know what the great threat to our nation is , and from who ....and it isn't some murderous whacko's.
No three guys {in my scenario} should be able to bend this nation of three hundred million to their will , and no few dead victims should cause us to self-destruct. That is of course their agenda , that we screw ourselves-- do what they could never accomplish .
There would be a lot people supporting just that , out of unreasonble fear , racism , religious bigotry ,or just plain ignorance.
There would be uproar to discard the very things that make this country as great as it is .
They would even dismantle the Constitution that many are sworn to protect . Destroy in order to protect .

I say , we are very, extremely ,vulnerable , all it would take is a airplane or something . You can imagine many scenarios , and possible outcomes .

It will happen someday , that's a fact . No matter how hard we try , we simply cannot prevent every nutcase , every zealot , from doing us harm --its impossible --and any rational person should understand that fact.
We should give major effort to prevent these thing's happeneing { we are IMO } and hang the animals should they be successful . Thats all we can or should do .

I am not prepared to give up anything for these sob's , not my rights , privleges , liberty --nothing !. When I say sob's , I mean those who commit these murderous acts , AND those who would take my rights, our rights because of them .
Do you think I have overstated the danger ? >f

[TRS-80 vet]

Originally Posted by valis

For you to hold such blatantly racist views simply astounds me..

Muslim is not a race. Rat race, perhaps, but not race in the sense of the 4 races - red, yellow, white, black.

Racist? Some races have predispositions/distinctions more so than other races. Yellow is smarter. Black is densest bone structure. Red ? White men can't jump.

The truth can be denied until the Fed's budget is balanced, but it's still the truth. But historians are trying their best to refute Shakespeare - 'To thy known self, keep fooling thyself until thou believest it'. You don't have to hurt your neck doing recto-cranial inversion anymore...

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

Do you think I have overstated the danger ? >f

i think that jet fuel and suicide bombers and dirty nukes and beheadings are just the delivery systems of a terrorist's most destructive weapon.......

and that is fear.....it is the same fear the roman population felt when they encountered the huns....barbarians who didn't adhere to the rules of "civilized" conflict, or look and act like "civilized" people.

the wierd thing to me is that -in my mind- upholding freedom and equality in the face of danger IS strenght.....some might call it "nationalistic" or "patriotic"......it's resistant to any conceit, and capable of enduring any challenge....the underground railroad demonstrated that in america, and the french proved it again in ww2

it is a strenght that doesn't ignore that people may die, or that organized armed conflict can become a necessity....but it acts to demonstrate what cannot be lost, not because it is afraid of what it might possibly lose.

to some, that will seem like so much semantic mumbo jumbo....more's the pity, imo.

so (almost forgot) to answer your question >f......no

[iltos]

Originally Posted by TRS-80 vet

'To thy known self, keep fooling thyself until thou believest it'

what's that from?....a search of shakespeare online doesn't have that quote in his writings....which doesn't necessarily mean anything more than i'm not very well versed in shakespeare

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by TRS-80 vet

Muslim is not a race. Rat race, perhaps, but not race in the sense of the 4 races - red, yellow, white, black.

Since you appear to be posting from a library why not look up how many races there are? Red race, ferchrissake

Racist? Some races have predispositions/distinctions more so than other races. Yellow is smarter. Black is densest bone structure. Red ? White men can't jump.

I dunno what "race" you are but I'm not prone to generalizing anyway. So I won't assume that the rest of your ilk share your neurocranium void.

The truth can be denied until the Fed's budget is balanced, but it's still the truth. But historians are trying their best to refute Shakespeare - 'To thy known self, keep fooling thyself until thou believest it'. You don't have to hurt your neck doing recto-cranial inversion anymore...

Nice portrait

You got one of yours while posting? You know, butt in mouth?

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by iltos

what's that from?....a search of shakespeare online doesn't have that quote in his writings....which doesn't necessarily mean anything more than i'm not very well versed in shakespeare

It's from Hamlet, Polonius addressing Laertes.

Nowhere near the original.

Whatsisname (can't be bothered to scroll up for his name) misquotes it appallingly by making more than half of it up.

"This above all:
To thine own self be true,
for it must follow as dost the night the day,
that canst not then be false to any man. "

Elizabethan take on Socrates (Know thyself).

[iltos]

Originally Posted by buffoon

It's from Hamlet, Polonius addressing Laertes.

Nowhere near the original.

Whatsisname (can't be bothered to scroll up for his name) misquotes it appallingly by making more than half of it up.

"This above all:
To thine own self be true,
for it must follow as dost the night the day,
that canst not then be false to any man. "

Elizabethan take on Socrates (Know thyself).

LOL
ya know, that one of the one's I DO know, but since TRSs version doesn't even say what Polonius said, I figured.....NAH!!!

now i think TRS just turned Shakespeare against v. to complete his belittling and sarcastic rant.....doesn't hurt the dead luminary a bit....kinda weakens TRSs credibility further, tho....

thanks for the translation, Buffo

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by iltos

LOL
..........kinda weakens TRSs credibility further, tho....

His WHAT?

thanks for the translation, Buffo

My pleasure

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

So true . Islamic or other fanatics cannot defeat the U.S. , limit our freedoms , or make us give up our liberty. Only the fearful --radical -- or stupid can do that .
Unfortunately , there are many who are already either supporting the idea , or considering it as possibility . I have seen that right here on this site .
I would have never thought this nation principals were standing on such shaky foundation.!

Let me create a scenario and demonstrate just how vulnerable our nation , our rights and liberty really are .
Lets say three radical Islamic nutcases get together and hatch a plan . Say ,,, attacks on both coasts that take ...20..maybe a 100 lives . Or worse yet , crash a aircraft into a public building . What do think would happen next ! .
There would be people frothing at mouth , screaming, demanding , to give up our rights ,,and our way of life . In this case who would be the more danger to our country , the Radicals ,who we could hang ?, or the crack-pot citizens who have no appreciation of the liberty they enjoy ?.
I know what the great threat to our nation is , and from who ....and it isn't some murderous whacko's.
No three guys {in my scenario} should be able to bend this nation of three hundred million to their will , and no few dead victims should cause us to self-destruct. That is of course their agenda , that we screw ourselves-- do what they could never accomplish .
There would be a lot people supporting just that , out of unreasonble fear , racism , religious bigotry ,or just plain ignorance.
There would be uproar to discard the very things that make this country as great as it is .
They would even dismantle the Constitution that many are sworn to protect . Destroy in order to protect .

I say , we are very, extremely ,vulnerable , all it would take is a airplane or something . You can imagine many scenarios , and possible outcomes .

It will happen someday , that's a fact . No matter how hard we try , we simply cannot prevent every nutcase , every zealot , from doing us harm --its impossible --and any rational person should understand that fact.
We should give major effort to prevent these thing's happeneing { we are IMO } and hang the animals should they be successful . Thats all we can or should do .

I am not prepared to give up anything for these sob's , not my rights , privleges , liberty --nothing !. When I say sob's , I mean those who commit these murderous acts , AND those who would take my rights, our rights because of them .
Do you think I have overstated the danger ? >f

This isnt hop scotch we are playing...what you speak of is childs play.
I used to deal with chemicals...I had to keep my chemicals protected.
Many people here in the states have the license to purchase these chemicals.
You can take about 100 ounces{unfinished] or so of one particular chemical maybe less and polute any one of the great lakes...cost about 140 bucks.
result all the life dies in the lake..this dead life creates bacteria and toxin...a water waste land if want the jist of it. In one weekend alone one could go from great lake to great lake and cause more grief than you can absorb.
That was pretty easy eh?.........makes you little drunken bunches of terrorist nothing...a plane crash would rather be had anyday.

Lets talk natural gas you know the stuff in those huge pipes under ground.
Well its not all underground..these huge pipes come up..in these locations you will find valves and regulators...you vandalize a regulator and you can burn a fourth of a city....just due to 2 foot long pilot lights..damaged regulators in houses.....gas lines breaking....again the airplane scenario is childs play.

Nuclear powerplants...how about the fruitcakes there decide to shut down the cooling and start chanting....again the aiplane scenario looks pleasant doesnt it.

Back to chemicals..but lets switch the class of chemicals....many of these are shipped by rail......Any chanting terrorist can derail a train with simple hand tools...or heck if he is weak a spade shovel ,chain and a pickup truck...now we have hundreds of thousands of gallons of this chemical spilled 3 miles inside a major city.

911 was childs play to what can happen,,,,,it was a slap and nothing more
You have no idea what can happen in one night do you?...I myself acting alone if I were a terrorist could bring more damage fear and truama than 911,devasting several states.
A small group 20 terrorist could bring this nation to nothing but pure living and dieing heelll over night while you sleep...literally........Do you get it???
You been ragging on me for a couple months so.............
You love our nation?...you always speak as you do.....you talk about the constitution liberty's freedoms....they arent free..they cost,,,the cowboy and indian days are gone..this is 2010.Why not back the people that make the united states possible rather than fight with left wing tactics,which jeopardize everything she is built upon......But dont stop there be proud to be an america....Place America first....Wave old glory...You talk the constitution,liberty and freedom,but yet sport a cuban flag,live in fla and have the gall to always throw the constitution etc about.....Seems like ones arse would be getting dizzy from such

[LANMaster]

What's I miss over the weekend?