[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by valis

Yes, you are. Remember the 'Elder of Zion', or some such crapola about how the Jews were forming a secret society to overtake the world?

You are doing the same thing. Essentially, you are actively participating in religious persecution, and I"m a bit surprised by that, b-man..........

It is a concern to have active muslims in national security,during war time IMO...Once again I would like to point out...I am not talking about the guy who stops eating pork and calls himself a muslim.....some are dangerous,as their religous beliefs become stronger,,this is the differance

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by valis

oh, give me a freakin' break. Now you are just being a racist twit with comments like that. Of COURSE freedom of religion should be extended to EVERYONE, regardless of race OR creed.

Sheesh.





No, brett, those are the extremists I told you about, and said you were overlooking. regular muslims are just like you and me. Or like Lew Alcindor or Cassius Clay, for that matter. Or even Cat Stevens.



I have, on several occasions. I was actually treated a LOT better than at any time I go to my sisters R.C. churches. Heck, we even were invited to a very, very traditional muslim marriage; damn thing went for three days, we were invited on the second, and it was a blast.

Bottom line; do I agree with the tenets and beliefs? Nope. But should they be allowed to have them? Damn straight.

I have stated earlier in this thread that that I have no problem with them and honor thier religion...The thread is about appointing known muslims into positions of national security....Are they casual muslims..or do they carry the belief all the way?....A dedicated muslim can be dangerous...fact

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

I agree with Valis on this one. It's no big deal.
Brett, show me where the guy has made extremist statements, and you may have a case. Otherwise he is merely practicing his religious beliefs, which should always garner protection in this country.

If we prevent people from practicing their religious beliefs by preventing them to excel in our society, then we are adopting fascism.

So the guy is a devout Muslim. So what? If your point is to make all US citizen Muslims suspect to terrorism charges, then I must seriously question your patriotism. yes, your patriotism.

Shame on you, Brett.

I always honor religious beliefs,,,however the muslim beliefs are to not be in harmony with christians...thats the problem...not a good choice for jobs in national security

[valis]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

It is a concern to have active muslims in national security,during war time IMO...Once again I would like to point out...I am not talking about the guy who stops eating pork and calls himself a muslim.....some are dangerous,as their religous beliefs become stronger,,this is the differance

ted bundy was a mormon.

ol' gacy was roman catholic.

I ask again, what's yer point? Because to me it smacks of religious racism.

[valis]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

.A dedicated muslim can be dangerous...fact

dude, a dedicated anything can be dangerous. But guess what........

so can a NON-dedicated anything.

Who the hell knows what goes through the minds of people like McVeigh, like Rudolph, Dahlmers? I've tried zillions of times to put myself in the mind of the pilots of the planes that struck the towers, and I can't.

Just as I can't figure out the mindset of someone who would kill and eat dozens of people and keep various parts in the freezer.

I simply can't wrap my mind around it.

But an adherent to the Islam religion? I can totally wrap my mind around that. No problemo.

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Your presumably making the above into something like the (Muslim) ten commandments (the figure is intentionally no coincidence?) I am resisting the urge to refute the ten points one by one or to point out some other 10 points equally distasteful that I could equally apportion to any religion of my choice.

The point being that they would be as concocted as yours with the aim of fitting an agenda already decided upon.

As far as Christian armies doing what you would like to see proof of, supplying you with that wouldn't be too difficult unless the killing of Americans and the hiding in caves is an absolute must.

If this is the result of your having gone into "medias res" for a while to overcome a bout of writing burnout you mentioned some time ago, then, Brettman, you shoulda made your rest somewhat longer.

And before you decide to debate the above 10 points, consider that I've forgotten more about Islam already than you will ever learn.





P.S. No, it isn't safe for you to go into the land of the muslims. In fact it isn't safe for you anywhere. Best stay at home

refute the ten points..perhaps something useful can come out..to be honest...I am not familiar with their book...never had one in my hand.

In response to your statement...there are no other religions I am familiar with that involves death in the way the religion is question does.

I never rest

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by valis

oh, give me a freakin' break. Now you are just being a racist twit with comments like that. Of COURSE freedom of religion should be extended to EVERYONE, regardless of race OR creed.

Sheesh.













Bottom line; do I agree with the tenets and beliefs? Nope. But should they be allowed to have them? Damn straight.

As to your first comment ? -LOL!!! Let me introduce you to the real brett ,
As to your last comment , . I believe , like you obviously do , in basic American liberty.
Think about this valis , what if this kind thought {brett} and these kind of people had control of this country ? . I would say it would be a nightmare , religious intolerance , and more , much more ,hard to imagine . Smart , educated , people {like yourself -IMO} , who professed belief in American religious liberty , equality , anti-racism ,ect ect , would be shouted down , silenced , and a dark future would be had by all .
What I am trying to say is that I fear these people just as much as Islamic or any other religious fanatics . They may in fact be more dangerous than Islam by fact that they are "Americans" of a sort , and by virtue of numbers ?.
At any rate , I think this is a weird thread , as iltos said --but a great one !.
Its good to see members expose what they are really all about --something worthwhile IMO .
You however , I never doubted --my hats off to you . You spoke straight . >f

[valis]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

As to your first comment ? -LOL!!! Let me introduce you to the real brett ,

nah, brettman's a good guy, just misinformed.

I hope.

As to your last comment , . I believe , like you obviously do , in basic American liberty.

Yup. I find it ironic that we live in such different cultures and yet share many, many opinions.

but what really blew me away was Oakhurst.

Think about this valis , what if this kind thought {brett} and these kind of people had control of this country ? . I would say it would be a nightmare , religious intolerance , and more , much more ,hard to imagine . Smart , educated , people {like yourself -IMO} , who professed belief in American religious liberty , equality , anti-racism ,ect ect , would be shouted down , silenced , and a dark future would be had by all .
What I am trying to say is that I fear these people just as much as Islamic or any other religious fanatics . They may in fact be more dangerous than Islam by fact that they are "Americans" of a sort , and by virtue of numbers ?.

I agree. It would be a totalitarian regime, similar to a Reich or Pink Floyd's vision in 'The Wall'. Freedom of thought and speech would be squelched, toe the line or get the 3 a.m. kick in the door.

I fear people with blinders on VASTLY more than I fear any muslim; people with blinders on are on a set of railroad tracks; there is no changing their course OR their destination. People of any religion, or even atheists, who do not have blinders on, are open to new and different suggestions, which of course stimulates growth; the other merely retards it.

You however , I never doubted --my hats off to you . You spoke straight . >f

Please, fidelista.........

I just calls 'em as I sees 'em, just as you do.

and to close with just one, tiny, little word:





peace.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by valis

nah, brettman's a good guy, just misinformed.

I hope.




Yup. I find it ironic that we live in such different cultures and yet share many, many opinions.

but what really blew me away was Oakhurst.



I agree. It would be a totalitarian regime, similar to a Reich or Pink Floyd's vision in 'The Wall'. Freedom of thought and speech would be squelched, toe the line or get the 3 a.m. kick in the door.

I fear people with blinders on VASTLY more than I fear any muslim; people with blinders on are on a set of railroad tracks; there is no changing their course OR their destination. People of any religion, or even atheists, who do not have blinders on, are open to new and different suggestions, which of course stimulates growth; the other merely retards it.




Please, fidelista.........

I just calls 'em as I sees 'em, just as you do.

and to close with just one, tiny, little word:





peace.

Oakhurst ? Bass lake ? my fondest memories . Funny how paths cross .
Peace to you my friend . >f

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

refute the ten points..perhaps something useful can come out..to be honest...I am not familiar with their book...never had one in my hand.

It's not just their book you're not familiar with, you know virtually nothing about their history either. I'm done refuting anything of the nonsense spouted upon Islam in general, the mentioned 10 points included. I've lived in Islamic countries for quite some time and if somebody ever held the desire to kill me it was not religiously motivated.

In response to your statement...there are no other religions I am familiar with that involves death in the way the religion is question does.

How about the Hebrews executing all polytheists (heathens) they encountered when taking Canaan? The Christianisation of the Americas ??? of Africa??? Crusades much later than the one that is always cited?? Protestants vs. Catholics in England, Ireland, Germany. Spanish Christian persecution of Moors and Jews???

Or, more recently, the latent religious racism showing in the stance in which you created this thread????

I never rest

That may be the problem

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

As to your first comment ? -LOL!!! Let me introduce you to the real brett ,
As to your last comment , . I believe , like you obviously do , in basic American liberty.
Think about this valis , what if this kind thought {brett} and these kind of people had control of this country ? . I would say it would be a nightmare , religious intolerance , and more , much more ,hard to imagine . Smart , educated , people {like yourself -IMO} , who professed belief in American religious liberty , equality , anti-racism ,ect ect , would be shouted down , silenced , and a dark future would be had by all .
What I am trying to say is that I fear these people just as much as Islamic or any other religious fanatics . They may in fact be more dangerous than Islam by fact that they are "Americans" of a sort , and by virtue of numbers ?.
At any rate , I think this is a weird thread , as iltos said --but a great one !.
Its good to see members expose what they are really all about --something worthwhile IMO .
You however , I never doubted --my hats off to you . You spoke straight . >f

As to your first comment ? -LOL!!! Let me introduce you to the real brett ,

If you only knew..........No prizes tonight

Think about this valis , what if this kind thought {brett} and these kind of people had control of this country ?

A dollar would still be a dollar...there would be no gay marriage...you can have as many wives as you want...you would pay a 25 percent tax and be done....The mexican border would be guarded like the canadian border.
Pot would be legal....Food has no tax....Farmers dont get paid to not farm.
You will hate this part....No unions....No govt grants for college---thus lowering tuition....no free public housing for dead beats..no govt funded abortions....you get the idea

who professed belief in American religious liberty , equality , anti-racism ,ect ect , would be shouted down , silenced , and a dark future would be had by all .

I believe in all being equal...this is where you create the very problem of racism IMO...IF we are all equal then let all be equal..let stop crying hate crimes/..and everyone is prejudice....I say crush all organization that seperate themselves for we are all human...that means the kkk the nccap
All of them...no one has any special rights....put on your boots and gloves and show up for work...no one cares about the color of anyones skin

What I am trying to say is that I fear these people just as much as Islamic or any other religious fanatics

Perfect you just admitted you fear Islam at the same time you are defending them........Cones are on the right

At any rate , I think this is a weird thread , as iltos said --but a great one !.

Nothing weird about the thread....you are already celebrating..Remember..no prizes,,,,None the less,the purpose of the thread is getting side tracked.
So time for an analogy ....City workers etc get turned down for something as petty as their myspace profile.
So lets get real for a minute..............

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by buffoon

It's not just their book you're not familiar with, you know virtually nothing about their history either. I'm done refuting anything of the nonsense spouted upon Islam in general, the mentioned 10 points included. I've lived in Islamic countries for quite some time and if somebody ever held the desire to kill me it was not religiously motivated.
How about the Hebrews executing all polytheists (heathens) they encountered when taking Canaan? The Christianisation of the Americas ??? of Africa??? Crusades much later than the one that is always cited?? Protestants vs. Catholics in England, Ireland, Germany. Spanish Christian persecution of Moors and Jews???

Or, more recently, the latent religious racism showing in the stance in which you created this thread????

That may be the problem

It the scope of time the world was very barbaric in general for much of history.
many of our parents or grandparents fought in barbaric wars.
Germany killing jews because they were jews....But its over if any one has a bone to pick it would be me due to jewish blood...we have advanced germany has advanced....If you think about it it was not that long ago. The majority of nations have evolved past the barbarianism and we should continue to do as such....Sure it still happens....by western culture it is barbaric...go to the places where it is happening...its just a way of life....just as to us as back in the cowboy and indian days.....Killing needs to stop due to race or religion.
Agreed?
You lived in Islamic countries?....perhaps you can then explain the barrier that is placed toward christians.

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

......Killing needs to stop due to race or religion.
Agreed?

Absolutely. But as I have pointed out many times before; religion has often been used (and is) as a convenient tool to which one can most easily rally the masses. By the rabble rousers that invoke religion for the furthering of much baser causes.

You lived in Islamic countries?....perhaps you can then explain the barrier that is placed toward christians.

I didn't see one. To them I was a "man of the book". Allah, Yahwe, God, all the same to them. Just that we had different ways of worship (they of course assumed theirs to be the only right one but one encounters that anywhere).

I didn't tell them that I'm not a believer. That would have gotten me real contempt. Faithlessness is unforgivable.

Saudi BTW is stone age Islam (Wahabism). Great influence upon the Taliban who were taught it in the Madrassas of Pakistan as refugee children.

We're not watching the Saudis enough

[valis]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

Oakhurst ? Bass lake ? my fondest memories . Funny how paths cross .
Peace to you my friend . >f

Indeed.

and peace unto you, mon ami.

[valis]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

.perhaps you can then explain the barrier that is placed toward christians.

dude..........there IS no barrier between the two religions...........I'm telling you, I've lived it. I was invited to a traditional Islamic wedding, and for me, it was a refreshing cultural change.

You gotta remember, holmes, that we are all here on the same planet. Roman Catholics, Christians, Muslims, Presbyterians, Mormons, and the beat goes on.

We all have to live side by side.

I'm a yankee's fan. My best friend is a bosox fan. Mortal enemies. And yet we have dinner together regularly.

Alll religion is is a belief system. Yours is, mine is, bin Laden's is. That's it. A belief system. bin Laden is an extremist; you and I (or I period) are not extremists. In short, we are not willing to take the life of another or ourselves to further our religious 'beliefs'.

Therein lies where you are missing the pivotal step, the link in the chain, what have you.....

peace

v