[ekim68]

A question: Is Iceland considered European?

Ash cloud closes 19 Spanish airports, could spread

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6470MB20100508

[ekim68]

Leaders vow to defend the euro currency

BRUSSELS (AP) — French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel announced early Saturday that Europe will set up an intervention mechanism to calm markets rattled by the Greek debt crisis.

Sarkozy and Merkel also said laid out a plan to defend the euro against speculators that should be in place by the time markets open on Monday. This, they said, should stave off any attack against weakened nations whose financial systems are at risk, including Spain and Portugal.

"The euro is an essential element of Europe. We cannot leave it to speculators," Sarkozy said following nine hours of emergency talks by leaders from eurozone nations.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...l-crisis_N.htm

[Knotbored]

Is the Greek money crisis and support by other European countries similar to California situation where budget will be subsidized by other states? Would either (or both) situations be soothed if Greek money (or California dollars) were seperated from "real" money?

(I don't know about the Iceland/European combination-but I do know folks from South Carolina get flustered when visiting Mexico and being lumped in as those yankees.)

[poochee]

Originally Posted by ekim68

A question: Is Iceland considered European?

Ash cloud closes 19 Spanish airports, could spread

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6470MB20100508

According to this chart, yes. It is listed under "Other European Countries" because it doesn't belong to the EU.

http://europa.eu/abc/european_countries/index_en.htm

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by ekim68

A question: Is Iceland considered European?

Yes.so does that mean...

Ash cloud closes 19 Spanish airports, could spread

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6470MB20100508

....that if the ash cloud blows your way you're gonna sue us?

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by Knotbored

Is the Greek money crisis and support by other European countries similar to California situation where budget will be subsidized by other states?

Well, the EU is going to subsidize Greece of sorts by guaranteeing Greece's loans. But it's a first time case. Greece is a sovereign state as are all other members of the EU. The EU compares not at all to the Union you have.

Would either (or both) situations be soothed if Greek money (or California dollars) were seperated from "real" money?

No. There is no Greek" Euro, it's just the Euro for everyone here. If a bigger country like France or Germany ran into trouble that would weaken the Euro for everyone. But US based hedge fonds aren't helping much right now in their attack on the currency in general.

(I don't know about the Iceland/European combination-but I do know folks from South Carolina get flustered when visiting Mexico and being lumped in as those yankees.) What happens when the average Yank is lumped in with those Carolinans?

[ekim68]

Originally Posted by buffoon

[/B]....that if the ash cloud blows your way you're gonna sue us?

Not me....I'm not flying anywhere now...I've already been to the places I want to go...

(Of course, the lawyers haven't weighed in yet... )

[paisanol69]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Well, the EU is going to subsidize Greece of sorts by guaranteeing Greece's loans. But it's a first time case. Greece is a sovereign state as are all other members of the EU. The EU compares not at all to the Union you have. No. There is no Greek" Euro, it's just the Euro for everyone here. If a bigger country like France or Germany ran into trouble that would weaken the Euro for everyone. But US based hedge fonds aren't helping much right now in their attack on the currency in general.
(I don't know about the Iceland/European combination-but I do know folks from South Carolina get flustered when visiting Mexico and being lumped in as those yankees.) What happens when the average Yank is lumped in with those Carolinans?

...whats good for the goose is also good for the gander!
It wasn't too long ago when the dollar was stronger than the euro, and before any " financial expert " comes up with the expected comment regarding Bush, and the war, or any other such nonsense, the drop in the value of the Dollar, (espically the huge drop it took, when oil prices skyrocketed,) versus the Euro value was very handy for the Europeans, since the Saudi Family likes their oil paid for in Dollars. Anybody see the connection here?

If not, just say so, and I will elaborate!

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by paisanol69

...whats good for the goose is also good for the gander!
It wasn't too long ago when the dollar was stronger than the euro, and before any " financial expert " comes up with the expected comment regarding Bush, and the war, or any other such nonsense, the drop in the value of the Dollar, (espically the huge drop it took, when oil prices skyrocketed,) versus the Euro value was very handy for the Europeans, since the Saudi Family likes their oil paid for in Dollars. Anybody see the connection here?

If not, just say so, and I will elaborate!

Sure thing paisano

I ain't griping. That's the markets.

[ekim68]

Gordon Brown stepping down

In a surprise move, the British prime minister announces that he will leave office in a few months. He says his Labor Party will pursue an alliance with the Liberal Democrats.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,2744585.story

[paisanol69]

Originally Posted by buffoon

Sure thing paisano

I ain't griping. That's the markets.

...if I left you, or anyone else, with the impression that I thought you griping, as that is certainly not the case. I am usually online starting around around 4:30 to 5:30 am in the morning (it's 5:36 right now) and when I typed my reply to your post yesterday, I was still waiting for my first sip of coffee to kick in, so my brain had not gotten engaged to my hands yet.

When I read your responses to the posts/thoughts of others here , espically in CivDebate, I cannot recall ever reading a whining, or griping response from you. It's one of the things I respect about your online personna.


As far as what I posted in my last post, for once I completely, wholeheartedly agree with Wino (even though I always enjoy reading his posts, since he has such a way with words, and always makes me laugh!) in regards to the price of oil, and the supposed shortage of it driving up the price, as a result, slamming the average American right in the pocket ! The speculation of profiteers in the market, both here in Europe, and in North America, was the only driving force of price of oil going up, that , and the fact that OPEC was not willing to step in by modifying it's output, in order to help keep the price down.

In that respect, I guess you could say, Bush was a failure wrt his relationship with the middle east, otherwise OPEC may have been more co-operative, who knows...

I am very amused by the fact ,that as the price of oil was heading for the sky, the value of the Dollar tracked this in an almost in a linear fashion, heading lower in value, as the Euro gained.

You are very aware, moreso, than most folks living on the North American continent, just how high the price of gasoline/petrol is over here in Europe/Britan. For the benifit of the American folks, here in the Netherlands, the current price of REGULAR UNLEADED gasoline/petrol is 1.68 per liter

ok simple math time....

1 U.S. Gallon = 3.785 Liters
3.785 liters x 1.48 = 5.60 Euros per US Gallon of gas
5.60 Euros x 1.28 US Dollars = $ 7.16 per Gallon of gas

That is what the Europeans are currently paying for their ability to tool around in their automobiles, I post this in order to clarify to my American readers, where I am going with this point wrt the price of oil.

Remembering that the middle east requires dollars for payment of oil, when oil began rising in price, heading over the
$ 100.00 per barrel range, the dollar declined every day against the Euro, in a similar percentage amount.

hmmmm lets see here..

price of oil $ 100.00 per barrel
Dollar value to Euro = $1.44 ( it even went over $ 1.50 )
oil price per barrel in Euro's = 69.44

This meant that as the North Americans were getting hammered, the less valuable the U.S. Dollars became, the cheaper the oil/gasoline became over here in Europe. Did the Europeans see any price drops ?? Nope! More importantly, the Eurpoeans say VERY LITTLE price increase, except where utility companies raised prices for energy provided to the homes.

now, we need to remember, all of this was happeneing while the Economies all over the globe were heading for the cellar. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, think that the EU had nothing to do with the value of the dollar dropping ?

When I got here, the dollar was at 1.28 Euros and is now at 0.69 Euros, roughly a 50 % drop in value.
Have I seen a 50 % drop in American made products over here ?
I have not seen ANY decrease in American made products since coming here.
hmmmmm, I wonder why...do you think that the European Union has anything to do with the taxes/tarifs imposed on American products??

For the defination of EU, used here by me, let me clarify...Anyone with any brains knows that the banking families over here in Europe have much more clout, and experience, than the banking industry in the U.S. Anyone that believes that the economic crash caused initally by the housing scam in the U.S. was a suprise to the European Banking system is foolish, the bankers/stock market folks over here were/are just as greedy as the folks on Wall Streeet, and just as guilty!

[buffoon]

Originally Posted by paisanol69

...if I left you, or anyone else, with the impression that I thought you griping, as that is certainly not the case. I am usually online starting around around 4:30 to 5:30 am in the morning (it's 5:36 right now) and when I typed my reply to your post yesterday, I was still waiting for my first sip of coffee to kick in, so my brain had not gotten engaged to my hands yet.

I know the feeling

As far as what I posted in my last post, for once I completely, wholeheartedly agree with Wino (even though I always enjoy reading his posts, since he has such a way with words, and always makes me laugh!) in regards to the price of oil, and the supposed shortage of it driving up the price, as a result, slamming the average American right in the pocket ! The speculation of profiteers in the market, both here in Europe, and in North America, was the only driving force of price of oil going up, that , and the fact that OPEC was not willing to step in by modifying it's output, in order to help keep the price down.

....to which one can add that OPEC really has no interest in making any production adjustments to get prices down. They realize darn well that oil is an iron that will eventually get colder so as long as we pay.....

I am very amused by the fact ,that as the price of oil was heading for the sky, the value of the Dollar tracked this in an almost in a linear fashion, heading lower in value, as the Euro gained.

....all despite the fact that Europe pays its oil bills in USD as well. The demand (even on paper only) for USD should have affected the exchange rate (positively for the dollar).

You are very aware, moreso, than most folks living on the North American continent, just how high the price of gasoline/petrol is over here in Europe/Britan. For the benifit of the American folks, here in the Netherlands, the current price of REGULAR UNLEADED gasoline/petrol is 1.68 per liter

It's slightly cheaper down here but that's a question of taxation. I'm not sure of the current situation but I remember the price of gas being comprised of upwards of 50 % taxes.

ok simple math time....

1 U.S. Gallon = 3.785 Liters
3.785 liters x 1.48 = 5.60 Euros per US Gallon of gas
5.60 Euros x 1.28 US Dollars = $ 7.16 per Gallon of gas

That is what the Europeans are currently paying for their ability to tool around in their automobiles, I post this in order to clarify to my American readers, where I am going with this point wrt the price of oil.

One needs to also recognize that, with increasing affluence, the Europeans have adopted the US propensity for doing most if not every thing by car. Which (with variations by European country) has led public transport to be either left in the lurch or actually put there. All this without having experienced the benefit of low taxes on gas, i.e. lower gas prices (that the US still enjoys, albeit less so). We all gripe about the cost of driving around but in the end we have accommodated them. If we'd ever had gas prices like the US has/had, there'd have been revolution by now.

Remembering that the middle east requires dollars for payment of oil, when oil began rising in price, heading over the
$ 100.00 per barrel range, the dollar declined every day against the Euro, in a similar percentage amount.

But that is primarily due to the dollar being required. Where Europe needing to buy dollars to pay its oil bill should, one thinks, have hiked the dollar, the amount of dollars that in forecast the US had to free, actually had the opposite effect.

The equation doesn't work without addressing the enormous debt and deficit situation of the US. Iraq and Afghanistan, but especially the former, added to dollar skepticism worldwide.

hmmmm lets see here..

price of oil $ 100.00 per barrel
Dollar value to Euro = $1.44 ( it even went over $ 1.50 )
oil price per barrel in Euro's = 69.44

This meant that as the North Americans were getting hammered, the less valuable the U.S. Dollars became, the cheaper the oil/gasoline became over here in Europe. Did the Europeans see any price drops ?? Nope! More importantly, the Eurpoeans say VERY LITTLE price increase, except where utility companies raised prices for energy provided to the homes.

Considering that we were getting more dollars for our Euro we should have been seeing decrease (of fuel price).

now, we need to remember, all of this was happeneing while the Economies all over the globe were heading for the cellar. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, think that the EU had nothing to do with the value of the dollar dropping ?

Money markets are never devoid of outside influence but I'd suggest that the US currency was hit hardest by the lack of trust placed in it (from areas outside of Europe as well, equally or more important in the clout of their decisions as to which way to jump). And the Euro had become a currency more safer (than USD) to invest into. It offered (or at least seemed to) collateral. A dollar bought solely for reason of having to use it as a payment tool didn't, especially when the country issuing it was going to be its biggest "slinger" and, at the same time allowing the outside (mainly China and still Japan) to foot the majority of its debts.

When I got here, the dollar was at 1.28 Euros and is now at 0.69 Euros, roughly a 50 % drop in value.
Have I seen a 50 % drop in American made products over here ?
I have not seen ANY decrease in American made products since coming here.
hmmmmm, I wonder why...do you think that the European Union has anything to do with the taxes/tarifs imposed on American products??

I profess to a bit of confusion here. Arithmetic would imply that US products should have hiked, yet you appear to expect a 50% decrease and show astonishment that there has been none whatsoever?? Correct me if necessary. Had there been a decrease I would suspect prohibitive import duties by the EU. If you're implying that an expected increase did not happen and this was due to prohibitive tariffs I'd be inclined to agree.

For the defination of EU, used here by me, let me clarify...Anyone with any brains knows that the banking families over here in Europe have much more clout, and experience, than the banking industry in the U.S. Anyone that believes that the economic crash caused initally by the housing scam in the U.S. was a suprise to the European Banking system is foolish, the bankers/stock market folks over here were/are just as greedy as the folks on Wall Streeet, and just as guilty!

Whole-hearted agreement. In fact they not only bought rotten derivatives across the pond, many of them were right there in the front line IN the US, trading their butts off and adding to the general melee right on the spot.

[paisanol69]

...away from me..I'm one of those "don't get me started" kind of people you run into once and a while...

buffoon;7378673]I know the feeling


...I profess to a bit of confusion here. Arithmetic would imply that US products should have hiked, yet you appear to expect a 50% decrease and show astonishment that there has been none whatsoever?? Correct me if necessary. Had there been a decrease I would suspect prohibitive import duties by the EU. If you're implying that an expected increase did not happen and this was due to prohibitive tariffs I'd be inclined to agree....

ok, now I am confused

Lets see if I can clarify by using a example..

A typical american made automobile (Chrysler, and yes, I did price them back then)sells for say $ 30,000.00 and in 2002 was selling over here in Europe for = 38,000.00 Euros (+/-)

That same basic model of automobile was selling for $ 31,000.00 in the states last year, however over here in Europe, it was now selling for 52,000.00 Euros.

ok, here is where Im getting confused..

in 2002 -- $ 30,000.00 x 1.28 euros = 38,400.00 euros for the actual cost of the auto over here in Europe

in 2009 -- 52,000.00 Euros x $0.69 Dollars = $ 35,880.00 dollars.

In other words, the auto costs $ 4,880.00 more over here in 2009, than it should have, based on the exchange currency rate between the Euro and the Dollar.
Why didnt the price for the auto come down, as the value (purchasing power) of the Euro went up, because the purchasing power of the Euro sure worked that way, when all the EU states were busy buying that expensive oil, with the cheaply purchased US Dollars.

Does that make more sense?

[ekim68]

France prepares to ban burqa

PARIS, May 12 (UPI) -- France's Parliament is taking the first step toward banning Muslim women from wearing a burqa or full-body niqab in public, lawmakers say.

The legislative body has approved a non-binding resolution that states "wearing of the full veil is contrary to the values of the republic" and "violates the dignity and equality between men and women," The Daily Telegraph reports.

Next week, France's Cabinet will examine a full draft bill imposing fines on women who wear the full veil and jail sentences of up to a year for men convicted of forcing them to cover up.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Internat...6291273675470/

(Not sure what to think about this..)

[poochee]

Originally Posted by ekim68

France prepares to ban burqa

PARIS, May 12 (UPI) -- France's Parliament is taking the first step toward banning Muslim women from wearing a burqa or full-body niqab in public, lawmakers say.

The legislative body has approved a non-binding resolution that states "wearing of the full veil is contrary to the values of the republic" and "violates the dignity and equality between men and women," The Daily Telegraph reports.

Next week, France's Cabinet will examine a full draft bill imposing fines on women who wear the full veil and jail sentences of up to a year for men convicted of forcing them to cover up.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Internat...6291273675470/

(Not sure what to think about this..)

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. IMO, if the 2000 insist on their rights to wear a burqa they should live a burqa country.