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Obama in Indonesia!


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Paquadez's Avatar
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10-Nov-2010, 08:33 AM #1
Cool Obama in Indonesia!
Well I don’t know which country Obama was talking about, but it was clearly not Indonesia.

Interestingly, my wife and I spent considerable time, in France a few weeks back, with a dear friend who is a university lecturer and ecologist, working on trying to save the coral reefs, which are essential to the marine ecology and additionally, to protect the land against such as Tsunamis.

Her tales of corruption, bent politicians, lawyers and judges were frightening!

She has spent the last 30 years living and working in Indonesia: speaks the languages and many of the dialects fluently.

The webref for the complete speech is at the bottom.

_____________________________________


“And while my stepfather, like most Indonesians, was raised a Muslim, he firmly believed that all religions were worthy of respect. In this way, he reflected the spirit of religious tolerance that is enshrined in Indonesia’s Constitution, and that remains one of this country’s defining and inspiring characteristics.”


Neatly forgetting the religious riots, naturally………

http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/...taf?ti_id=4595

“In the years since then, Indonesia has charted its own course through an extraordinary democratic transformation – from the rule of an iron fist to the rule of the people. In recent years, the world has watched with hope and admiration, as Indonesians embraced the peaceful transfer of power and the direct election of leaders. And just as your democracy is symbolized by your elected President and legislature, your democracy is sustained and fortified by its checks and balances: a dynamic civil society; political parties and unions; a vibrant media and engaged citizens who have ensured that – in Indonesia -- there will be no turning back.”

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/I...esia-Oct15.pdf

“America has a stake in an Indonesia that pursues sustainable development, because the way we grow will determine the quality of our lives and the health of our planet. That is why we are developing clean energy technologies that can power industry and preserve Indonesia’s precious natural resources – and America welcomes your country’s strong leadership in the global effort to combat climate change.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6796876.ece

“Of course, democracy is messy. Not everyone likes the results of every election. You go through ups and downs. But the journey is worthwhile, and it goes beyond casting a ballot. It takes strong institutions to check the concentration of power. It takes open markets that allow individuals to thrive. It takes a free press and an independent justice system to root out abuse and excess, and to insist upon accountability. It takes open society and active citizens to reject inequality and injustice.”

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/opini...s-graft/374996

You can read the full text of Obama’s speech here:


http://www.america.gov/st/texttrans-...0.4249035.html
thingamajig's Avatar
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10-Nov-2010, 10:30 AM #2
I see no reason why Obama should have addressed "corruption, bent politicians, lawyers and judges" during the speech at the University. It wasn't the setting for such things.

Quote:
We can choose to be defined by our differences, and give in to a future of suspicion and mistrust. Or we can choose to do the hard work of forging common ground, and commit ourselves to the steady pursuit of progress.
Given all the hysteria and hyperbole of the recent election campaign and the politics of fear that have been sown since 9/11, I see such a message as a positive change.

According to Time, the issues you mentioned were also on the agenda

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...le+Feedfetcher

Quote:
The initiative, designed to help tackle key issues in Indonesia from corruption and climate change to deforestation and human rights, was welcomed as a sign of the U.S. paying attention to more than fighting terrorist networks in the region
How do you visit another nation and tell them how they should be doing things when we can't even get it right here at home?
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10-Nov-2010, 10:50 AM #3
Strange mindset you have Thingus.

Always on the defensive of the indefensible.

Now, did I suggest that Obama needed to address such issues?

The whole point is he talked total bull crap about a nation state which has been roiled in civil trauma, corruption and violence since the days of Sukarno and Suharto.

And still is.

Therefore why eulogise about things which are patently not true? All that does is make you appear a complete fool to those who actually bother to research the veracity of his statements: and convince those thoroughly, who nursed significant doubts, before!

Simply, don't mention them: and get along with fixing your deals behind closed curtains: the whole real point of the visit.
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10-Nov-2010, 10:56 AM #4
What would you have suggested he say Paq? It was a diplomatic mission. Would you prefer to see tanks rolling in with guns blazing?
Paquadez's Avatar
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10-Nov-2010, 02:39 PM #5
He ought not to have launched into hyperbole, praising various aspects of Indonesia and Indonesian society, structure, bureaucracy and politics when his comments are clearly false and the realities wholly and wildly disparate.

Learn from David Cameron: say nothing much: even where this means you are criticised by the left for failing to "preach" about Human Rights, to the government.

I say again, Obama's glowing speech is carried, verbatim, on the US government website America.gov, Engaging the World.

It would be like a state visit to the USA from, Say M. le President Sarkozy, saying, amongst other things, how wonderfully progressive US society was at inclusion of all sectors of society, irrespective of their race and colour; how wonderfully well they balance their budget and fiscal affairs; how wonderful it is they have little international debt; how wonderful it is that they have eradicated poverty and so on.

He would be scorned and laughed at as a fool.

And quite correctly.

I can only suspect Obama's speech was written by scriptwriters at Disney...............

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10-Nov-2010, 05:29 PM #6
I see your point Paq, but I don't think that is how they view it in Indonesia. While I've read a mix of views, I have read nothing that implies they are insulted by his talk of their "progress". They are clamoring for global respect more so than we. We may laugh at Sarkozy but they will only respond with pride, indifference, or dislike because he is "killing Muslims". My closest contact is Kuala Lumpur but you I can't find anything of what you mention in the Indonesian press.

Consider the opinion section of, e.g., The Jakarta Post or Globe.
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10-Nov-2010, 05:37 PM #7
The Indonesians don't vote for him.

IMHO he has opened a potential opportunity for his political opponents to diss his credibility and grasp of foreign affairs..

Rather a bad time to do this...............
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10-Nov-2010, 05:41 PM #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paquadez View Post
The Indonesians don't vote for him.

IMHO he has opened a potential opportunity for his political opponents to diss his credibility and grasp of foreign affairs..

Rather a bad time to do this...............
His political opponents can't even find Indonesia on a map.
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10-Nov-2010, 05:48 PM #9
Don't be so sure.

Large exploitable oil and gas reserves...............

"Indonesia had 4.3 bn barrels of proven oil reserves as of January 2007, down from 4.4 bn barrels at end-2003, about 5.2 bn barrels at end-1993 and 10.1 bn barrels at end-1983. OGJ put Indonesia's natural gas reserves at 97.8 TCF as of January 2007"

"Indonesia’s two largest oil fields are Minas and Duri, which are operated by Chevron..........."

Source: http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Indonesia/Oil.html
Paquadez's Avatar
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10-Nov-2010, 05:51 PM #10
"The Chevron Corp. oil tanker Condoleezza Rice sailed into the sunset one day in April 2001 and never was seen again. No problem, however: The 129,000-ton vessel returned shortly thereafter as the Altair Voyager, safely rechristened after a real star in the galaxy instead of a political star on President George W. Bush's national-security team...................."
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10-Nov-2010, 05:58 PM #11
True enough that Indonesia has resources of interest and a market. One reason to try and flatter them I guess. China is ahead of us on that of course. Trade agreements are a principle focus of Obama's tour of Asia. I haven't heard many complaints about the trip accept for the usual suspects that will find something. I think they've latched on to the cost of his travel as if that is something new that only happens with a "socialist" president.
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10-Nov-2010, 07:50 PM #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paquadez View Post
He ought not to have launched into hyperbole, praising various aspects of Indonesia and Indonesian society, structure, bureaucracy and politics when his comments are clearly false and the realities wholly and wildly disparate.

.......

Maybe Barry was thinking about his gay nanny
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1956brother   (john) 1956brother is offline
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10-Nov-2010, 08:35 PM #13
this is a photo op for the muslim world and nothing more. the president of the us visits the world's largest muslim country.
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10-Nov-2010, 11:34 PM #14
The role of Obama should be a friendly visit without any critical speech such as he did..As a diplomatic guest you show admiration's for qualities in the culture...you express you have had enjoyed your time talking with leaders in that country......the mission is to be a bond..no more...The ideal is the people to feel a warmth about you after your speech...Thus the public is more accepting of interactions between the two nations.
Obama should be no more than a mediator in the aid of a handshake so to say..
He must be aware of this...if not the panel of people who he talks to knows it..
While he may have bluffed a nation into voting for him...the same lines of the show of expression for seeing govt fault should not be used..for establishing relations ...I suppose it is all he knows and has no skills at diplomatic relation.
But the Obama lovers here and will defend the idiot for he can no wrong...I dont know whether to find it sad or disturbing to be honest
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ekim68   (Mike) ekim68 is offline
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11-Nov-2010, 12:09 AM #15
And for you Obama haters, he can do no right...
As Seen On

BBC, Reader's Digest, PC Magazine, Today Show, Money Magazine
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