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Stoner's Avatar
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04-Mar-2011, 11:59 PM #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidelista View Post
Because I am doubtful , does not mean he did not say it --or something like it . He may have .
If he didn't , its a shame , as it is obviously true , and would reflect well on great President . >f
The absence of business is rather glaring, >f.........a balanced statement would include business and labor as partnerships, neither to be hated.
It's currently being used as propaganda to bolster labor with the confrontations now going on concerning collective bargaining in the public sector.

A great President wouldn't have made that mistake, imo.
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05-Mar-2011, 12:05 AM #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by LANMaster View Post

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."
Abraham Lincoln
The "cannots".

Actually by the Rev. John Henry Boetcker according to http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lincoln/prosperity.asp

Famous words need famous mouths. Dead mouths are the least resistant.

The amount of things the man (Abe) is supposed to have said pro today's labor and pro today's capital, and all in one lifetime, it would have been a wonder that he ever got around to anything else.
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05-Mar-2011, 12:09 AM #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffoon View Post
They use him as much as Republicans do. Just as conveniently those quotes that are more supportive of their cause.

I'm glad for Abe that he no longer has to see (hear) all this. He'd be so occupied in denying ever having said anything, he wouldn't find the time to vomit.
He is one of the more famous...many probably cant name the president before or after him right off the top of their heads{I cant}
So we know he had social skills but did he deliver?.
He is most famous for the big dent regarding slavery..{which IMO would have happened anyway had he been the one to not make the progress with it}..as many Americans were already against slavery at that time.
Back to the possibility of the quote...It is always more difficult to prove what someone didnt say than what one did say..so there is always the possibility..but I have never read anything that would coincide the quote in question..
But...if a statement as such was made by him..the fact that it would be out of character would have more impact than if it was within character...thereby sources should be available just due to "out of character aspect of it'
I would give 99 to 1 odds its a false quote

Last edited by aka Brett; 05-Mar-2011 at 01:16 AM..
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05-Mar-2011, 12:20 AM #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by aka Brett View Post
He is one of the more famous...many probably cant name the president before or after him right off the top of their heads{I cant}
So we know he head social skills but did he deliver?.
He is most famous for the big dent regarding slavery..{which IMO would have happened anyway had he been the one to not make the progress with it}..as many Americans were already against slavery at that time.
Back to the possibility of the quote...It is always more difficult to prove what someone didnt say than what one did say..so there is always the possibility..but I have never read anything that would coincide the quote in question..
But...if a statement as such was made by him..the fact that it would be out of character would have more impact than if it was within character...thereby sources should be available just due to "out of character aspect of it'
I would give 99 to 1 odds its a false quote
I'd be comfortable to go along with you on that. It just seems so unlikely.
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05-Mar-2011, 01:01 AM #35
That quote usage got my attention also...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner View Post
Here is a quote by Lincoln to the New York Workingmen's Democratic Republican Association , 21 March 1864

Quote:
Quote:
"If any man tells you he loves America, yet hates labor, he is a liar" - Abraham Lincoln
Those don't look like the thought's of someone that would have scripted the quote in question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner View Post
This is being posted in CE by you know who ( ):



I can find many web sites and forums repeating that claim, but I can't find a source where a speech of Lincoln's can be verified as to having that content.
I'm interested in reading the speech for context.

Quote:
Quote:
That some should be rich, shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built.


Can anyone verify Lincoln made this statement and provide a link to the whole speech?
does this help???
The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Reply to New York Workingmen's Democratic Republican Association" (March 21, 1864), pp. 259-260.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text...lincoln7%3A566

interesting footnote at this link, regarding whether or not he actually said it..


IMO, he may have actually said it.
However, common sense tells me that if/when he said it, he was referring to those that would rather criticize members of the society that were willing to work hard, in order to obtain security and "build their own house", rather than supporting any union, or organized labor. In fact, it's more of a " earn it, if you want to have it " statement, than it is a "love labor unions, or hate America sentiment" statement, as implied in the signature, and post of a member!

An unproven, unattributable quote, used out of context.
Just remember, if you say it often enough, even when false, it becomes the truth to the ignorant!
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05-Mar-2011, 01:08 AM #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by paisanol69 View Post
Just remember, if you say it often enough, even when false, it becomes the truth to the ignorant!
Cool quote... Can I use it?
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05-Mar-2011, 01:12 AM #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by paisanol69 View Post
does this help???
The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Reply to New York Workingmen's Democratic Republican Association" (March 21, 1864), pp. 259-260.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text...lincoln7%3A566

interesting footnote at this link, regarding whether or not he actually said it..


IMO, he may have actually said it.
However, common sense tells me that if/when he said it, he was referring to those that would rather criticize members of the society that were willing to work hard, in order to obtain security and "build their own house", rather than supporting any union, or organized labor. In fact, it's more of a " earn it, if you want to have it " statement, than it is a "love labor unions, or hate America sentiment" statement, as implied in the signature, and post of a member!

An unproven, unattributable quote, used out of context.
Just remember, if you say it often enough, even when false, it becomes the truth to the ignorant!
This is the quote in question:

Quote:
"If any man tells you he loves America, yet hates labor, he is a liar" - Abraham Lincoln
I don't see anything at your link suggesting the quote is valid.

edit: Looks like you have my quotes mixed up.

Last edited by Stoner; 05-Mar-2011 at 01:23 AM..
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05-Mar-2011, 01:29 AM #38
Hey Stoner does this help you ?

Quote:
Abraham Lincoln as chiseled into Mount Rushmore appears today below the quotes.

“All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason to America. No line can be drawn between these two. If any man tells you he loves America yet hates labor, he is a liar. If any man tells you he trusts America yet fears labor, he is a fool. There is no America without labor; and to fleece the one is to rob the other.”

Quote:
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
The first quote is the subject of considerable debate.The when and where of it all have been lost to history. Some believe that President Lincoln actually said it, and some don't. The second quote came from Mr. Lincoln's first address to Congress on December 3, 1861. There is no debate about that.
http://pandapapers.blogspot.com/2011...-day-quiz.html
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05-Mar-2011, 01:36 AM #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlefield View Post
Quote:
The first quote is the subject of considerable debate.The when and where of it all have been lost to history.
No
Looks like the issue can't be settled if that's accurate.
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05-Mar-2011, 01:52 AM #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner View Post
No
Looks like the issue can't be settled if that's accurate.
Yea , you can hear the union people saying , hey it's at Mount Rushmore that is good enough for me
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05-Mar-2011, 01:54 AM #41
Why only the union people?
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05-Mar-2011, 02:00 AM #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekim68 View Post
Why only the union people?
I was joking Ekim since they are the ones using it and the quote of course is not literally beneath the sculpture but I was kidding about how that sentence was written.
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05-Mar-2011, 02:02 AM #43
Have you ever been union LF?
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05-Mar-2011, 02:08 AM #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlefield View Post
Yea , you can hear the union people saying , hey it's at Mount Rushmore that is good enough for me
It's not at Mt Rushmore.....I thought the same, but rereading the article.......the quotes are merely posted above the photo of Lincoln at Rushmore
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05-Mar-2011, 02:09 AM #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner View Post
It's not at Mt Rushmore.....I thought the same, but rereading the article.......the quotes are merely posted above the photo of Lincoln at Rushmore
Yea, see my post above
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