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Americans Cheating Their Government.


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09-Sep-2011, 10:21 PM #16
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Originally Posted by Drabdr View Post
Hi Poochers!! Hope your week went well!!

Sadly, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is so much fraud out there, it's sad. And... further, there are so many cases where people need to be 'kicked' off programs (according to the programs own rules), and, there is just not enough competent people to pursue.
Had a good week, hope the same for you.

I've been observing this cheating in the medical profession for some time. That's why I started this thread. It is not my intention to knock the programs but to point out how dishonest/greedy some of our citizens are. IMO, opinion the Feds are doing a good job of prosecuting when they get wind of it. Not debating, just making my point.
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09-Sep-2011, 10:47 PM #17
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Originally Posted by Drabdr View Post
..................................................
Ok, in general, most people would not be totally against helping someone with housing that don't have a job, no income, down on their luck, etc. I know I'm not. But.... what if they have money? Money they are not reporting? Money they "forget" to report? People living in their house they don't report? Etc. the problem is that there aren't enough people to go after it. And... even fewer of those people competent (or care enough) to be diligent to dig (again... according to the rules of the organization) and find out what's going on. There are soooooo many people on programs and getting government assistance that have no business getting it. It's just so big with so few people working it, that there is just so much waste and fraud. Sad but true.
Gonna get a lot worse by the time the republicans get thru gutting the government, federal and state, so there won't be anyone to check for fraud. But, hey, we don't need no stinkin' government. We'll become like free range chickens - survival of the fittest (or is that the fastest).

BTW, you got a link to quantity of sooooooo many that are fraudulently getting government assistance - or is that just your opinion?? Even a percentage 10%? 30%? 80%? will do. A source better than Fox or Newsmax, OK?
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09-Sep-2011, 11:58 PM #18
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Originally Posted by Wino View Post
Gonna get a lot worse by the time the republicans get thru gutting the government, federal and state, so there won't be anyone to check for fraud. But, hey, we don't need no stinkin' government. We'll become like free range chickens - survival of the fittest (or is that the fastest).

BTW, you got a link to quantity of sooooooo many that are fraudulently getting government assistance - or is that just your opinion?? Even a percentage 10%? 30%? 80%? will do. A source better than Fox or Newsmax, OK?
From source
Quote:
Up to 10 percent of the United States annual budget is paid to companies or persons who are defrauding the government. At McKnight & Kennedy LLC, we work with those who have the courage to expose people and
http://www.mcknightandkennedy.com/

Let me do the math for you,,,,by reading the article
Up to 10 percent of the entire budget goes to fraud.
Thats right..not 10 percent of the people blah blah...but 10 percent of the budget
That is 6 point 2 trillion divided by 10...that comes to 620 billion dollars
Divided by about 140 million taxpayers
That comes to $ 4428.57 per taxpayer
Sorry no number of people...the number of people isnt important anyway,,its the dollar figure that is.

Wow just imagine yourself paying 4428 dollars less on tax next year Wino!
Think like a republican.
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10-Sep-2011, 12:21 AM #19
Well I for one am glad Republicans finally came to about fiscal responsibility.... It's just so amazing to me that they didn't practice it during the Bush Administration that brought about the Recession to begin with.... They can talk-the-talk, but their walk-the-walk should be better timed, IMO.....
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10-Sep-2011, 12:23 AM #20
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Originally Posted by aka Brett View Post
From source


http://www.mcknightandkennedy.com/

Let me do the math for you,,,,by reading the article
Up to 10 percent of the entire budget goes to fraud.
Thats right..not 10 percent of the people blah blah...but 10 percent of the budget
That is 6 point 2 trillion divided by 10...that comes to 620 billion dollars
Divided by about 140 million taxpayers
That comes to $ 4428.57 per taxpayer
Sorry no number of people...the number of people isnt important anyway,,its the dollar figure that is.

Wow just imagine yourself paying 4428 dollars less on tax next year Wino!
Think like a republican
.
No, your nation needs new thinking. Republicans and Democrats alike have gotten your country into such a mess. Instead of taking a $4,428 tax cut I would say waive it and pump it into paying off your $14,400,000,000,000 debt. Consider it an investment so that your grandchildren won't curse you for having bled the country dry and leaving them the bill.
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10-Sep-2011, 01:15 AM #21
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Originally Posted by pyritechips View Post
No, your nation needs new thinking. Republicans and Democrats alike have gotten your country into such a mess. Instead of taking a $4,428 tax cut I would say waive it and pump it into paying off your $14,400,000,000,000 debt. Consider it an investment so that your grandchildren won't curse you for having bled the country dry and leaving them the bill.
I like that
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ekim68   (Mike) ekim68 is online now
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10-Sep-2011, 01:21 AM #22
Yeah right Brett, what did you pay in taxes last year?
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10-Sep-2011, 03:16 AM #23
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Originally Posted by ekim68 View Post
Well I for one am glad Republicans finally came to about fiscal responsibility.... It's just so amazing to me that they didn't practice it during the Bush Administration that brought about the Recession to begin with.... They can talk-the-talk, but their walk-the-walk should be better timed, IMO.....
You may have not noticed..but it is a world crises...not restricted to any policy while under bush.
The only nations that are not suffering such are those that resemble policy of Republican equivalency {Low tax for business as well as incentive for expansion and creation}
Bush merely had to much opposition along the way to make it desirable for the businesses and corps to be competitive with nations that are now prospering with said adjustments by their Govts,,,,while some nations are scrambling to fix their crises we are going further away with more added burdens under the current administration.
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10-Sep-2011, 08:46 AM #24
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Originally Posted by aka Brett View Post

http://www.mcknightandkennedy.com/

....................................
I would trust NewsMax over that link. In any case, has nothing to do with my question to Drabdr.
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10-Sep-2011, 09:35 AM #25
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Originally Posted by Wino View Post
Gonna get a lot worse by the time the republicans get thru gutting the government, federal and state, so there won't be anyone to check for fraud. But, hey, we don't need no stinkin' government. We'll become like free range chickens - survival of the fittest (or is that the fastest).
If we quite giving free stuff to people, we won't need the government.

Quote:
BTW, you got a link to quantity of sooooooo many that are fraudulently getting government assistance - or is that just your opinion?? Even a percentage 10%? 30%? 80%? will do. A source better than Fox or Newsmax, OK?
Fair question, and no. And I can't give you a percentage, because they don't track those metrics. Gov't don't care about metrics; just getting bigger.

I talk to people who work in the departments. They know. And yes... it's high. In the one program I know of, an estimation is that 40% have no business being on the assistance program, per the programs current guidelines.

Last edited by Drabdr; 10-Sep-2011 at 09:41 AM.. Reason: Fix quote; add additional comments
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10-Sep-2011, 09:39 AM #26
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Originally Posted by poochee View Post
Had a good week, hope the same for you.

I've been observing this cheating in the medical profession for some time. That's why I started this thread. It is not my intention to knock the programs but to point out how dishonest/greedy some of our citizens are. IMO, opinion the Feds are doing a good job of prosecuting when they get wind of it. Not debating, just making my point.
Good points, Poochee.

Of one particular program, I do believe and support the initiative. But of the people getting assistance, there are so few of them that actually qualify (per the programs own guidelines). The rest are just riding the system. And... to your concern, by not reporting those things they know they should, they are cheating the system.
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10-Sep-2011, 09:44 AM #27
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Originally Posted by pyritechips View Post
No, your nation needs new thinking. Republicans and Democrats alike have gotten your country into such a mess. Instead of taking a $4,428 tax cut I would say waive it and pump it into paying off your $14,400,000,000,000 debt. Consider it an investment so that your grandchildren won't curse you for having bled the country dry and leaving them the bill.
That's true, but they have to cut spending also. Otherwise, they raise taxes, grow spending, and we get nothing.

I still maintain that it's better for the economy to offer tax cuts to get the money into the economy, rather than send it in as taxes.
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10-Sep-2011, 11:29 AM #28
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Originally Posted by Drabdr View Post
If we quite giving free stuff to people, we won't need the government.
Oh, that would work.

Quote:
I talk to people who work in the departments. They know. And yes... it's high. In the one program I know of, an estimation is that 40% have no business being on the assistance program, per the programs current guidelines.
Third party opinions?? If they KNOW, why are they allowing it to happen??

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Originally Posted by Drabdr View Post
That's true, but they have to cut spending also. Otherwise, they raise taxes, grow spending, and we get nothing.
Agree spending needs to be cut, but you think we get little in return for our taxes?? (I'm not just talking federal)

Quote:
I still maintain that it's better for the economy to offer tax cuts to get the money into the economy, rather than send it in as taxes.
So you're under the impression that tax money paid doesn't make it back into the economy??? I'm guessing that Irene and Texas wildfire disaster money will never be seen in the economy - just run out to sea with the flood waters and up in smoke with the fires. SS is hoarded and not spent. The military spends nothing. Welfare and unemployment is never spent.

It is inane / silly thinking similar to yours that prevents me from voting for a republican. Do away with government and taxes; everyone for themselves; do away with evironmental agencies and those that police banks, insurance companies and Wall St. and allow them to operate unfettered by regulations - and the list goes on and on. It's no wonder this country is screwed up.
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10-Sep-2011, 11:45 AM #29
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Originally Posted by Wino View Post
Oh, that would work.

It is inane / silly thinking similar to yours that prevents me from voting for a republican. Do away with government and taxes; everyone for themselves; do away with evironmental agencies and those that police banks, insurance companies and Wall St. and allow them to operate unfettered by regulations - and the list goes on and on. It's no wonder this country is screwed up.
And we'd be on our way to becoming a 'third world" country"!
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10-Sep-2011, 12:02 PM #30
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Third party opinions?? If they KNOW, why are they allowing it to happen??
What are they supposed to do about it? They don't have the drive to do anything about it. Government agencies have no drive to get them off of there. I'm not saying no on cares; just saying it's not a priority.

How many billions could we save in Social Security fraud if that became a priority?

Quote:
Agree spending needs to be cut, but you think we get little in return for our taxes?? (I'm not just talking federal)
A good point. I would say though that we would get more for the same amount of money by letting private industry handle the same services.

It' like paying $10.00 for a hamburger. It darn well better be a good hamburger, for what I'm paying. We do get stuff for our taxes. But we could get more by spending that money in the private sector.

Quote:
So you're under the impression that tax money paid doesn't make it back into the economy??? I'm guessing that Irene and Texas wildfire disaster money will never be seen in the economy - just run out to sea with the flood waters and up in smoke with the fires. SS is hoarded and not spent. The military spends nothing. Welfare and unemployment is never spent.
No, that's not what I meant. There is a multiplier for government spending. It's just that the multiplier is larger for spending the same dollar in private sector. More bang for the buck.

It is inane / silly thinking similar to yours that prevents me from voting for a republican. Do away with government and taxes; everyone for themselves; do away with environmental agencies and those that police banks, insurance companies and Wall St. and allow them to operate unfettered by regulations - and the list goes on and on. It's no wonder this country is screwed up.[/QUOTE]

Ok... now that's just silly and extreme. I and others know we have to have a federal government. But the scope of the federal government is of concern. When an issue comes up, I want the government out of it. Others want government in it.

The thing is... what I pay now is not enough. I could send in more; still not enough. It's never enough. Until we pare down the scope of the government and instill in people the discipline to take care of some matters on their own, we are going to collapse under the weight of the federal government.
***

Interesting to see people stress: Regulate banks, Wall Street, Fat Cats, etc. But in a thread about how much abject waste, corruption, and outright theft there are of our tax dollars in the particular entitlement programs, it does not seem to bring the same level of ire.
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