[wacor]

Originally Posted by Bastiat

Anti-psychotic and group therapy?

I am sure that is what the left thinks

[Bastiat]

Originally Posted by wacor

I am sure that is what the left thinks

They think? Haven't seen any evidence of that on this Board.

[wacor]

Originally Posted by Bastiat

They think? Haven't seen any evidence of that on this Board.

good point

[lotuseclat79]

The House Health Care Bill: Read It.

House Democrats have posted the bill online. A summary can be read here and the full version downloadable/viewable PDF is here.

-- Tom

[Remus_Lupin]

I hope this bill passes today. I'm disgusted by the teabaggers who oppose this bill. They are incredibly selfish people who have no empathy or regard for human life. Someone I know suffers from a heart condition called 'idiopathic cardiomyopathy', the survival rate in this condition is less than 10% but he can lead a relatively normal life as long he has a piece of machinery in his heart. That device alone costs more than 150k which is 3 times more than what he makes, if his healthcare costs hit the cap set by his insurance company he is screwed, he will go bankrupt and leave his wife & kids in a ton of debt. He is terrified of losing his job or having to change his job since if that happens no insurance company would take him as he has a preexisting condition. The Republican answer to this person is "too bad, should have made more money, please go ahead & die" If the Republicans are successful in derailing this legislation than I hope everyone who opposes this bill gets an expensive condition like idiopathic cardiomyopathy and loses their insurance so that they can feel what it's like to be in such situation.

[aka Brett]

A must see

[thingamajig]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

A must see

That video was produced in August 2009. Nice try Brett but, LOL, show me the text of the current bill at an official site. Read the text of the current bill and you may be able to produce a video, taking qoutes out of context if they exist, like that .. oh.. by August 2011..: By then we'll all be able to get a copy of it at our local law library.

[aka Brett]

So the first bill sucked?...why should we trust another bill?....we see the intent of the bill.
Dont you expect in a new bill it will be written as to where it can get changed in the future without process?

[Remus_Lupin]

Originally Posted by wacor

That is baloney and typical liberal spin with all due respect

They have spoke out about things that need changing. It just does not fit into the liberal mantra of moving towards a single payer which this current proposal clearly is geared towards in the future.

What proposal have the Republicans made that insures 30 million+ people? The only 2 republican proposals I hear are buying across statelines & tort reform which are so inconsequential and laughable that they're not even worth mentioning. Heck they are so puny that even people on DailyKos or Huffinton Post are like "meh, whatever, include them in the bill if you want to" about it

let me ask a simple question to all those on the left. The left and this thread labels it a health care crisis. They rail about the insurance companies. How is it then that this proposal forces people to buy insurance and still leaves out about 20 million.

Tell me how can a liberal who has bashed the insurance companies and whined about those without insurance possible think this proposal is an answer to the problem

Republicans and America in general dislikes and bashes communism and dictatorships. Yet we trade with and work with a state like China. We have worked with and still work with many dictators in south america & Africa, every sane Republican these days agrees that removing Saddam and trying to make Iraq into a democracy was a mistake. What's the point here- the point is we have to work within the parameters of the situation. America may hate dictatorship yet t has to cooperate with China because those are the cards we are dealt with. In the same way us Liberals hate insurance companies but for the time being atleast we have to deal with insurance companies because that's the only realistic way to insure more than 30 million Americans and save millions from bankruptcy in the near term. Obviously this legislation leaves the door open for future legeslation to ultimately get a single payer system. Canada passed a smaller act to improve healthcare in 1961 before they ultimately passed another act in 1966 to go to a single payer system.

And tell how this is going to cut let alone curb my insurance costs??

God forbid that tomorrow you, your wife or someone in your family gets a cancer or some kind of terminal illness. Your insurace plan is only going to cover you upto a certain cap, usually around a million dollars for most middleclass people making less than 100k. With a terminal illness you are probably going to hit a million dollars. After that you are responsible for your healthcare. What would you do then? Do you agree with the republicans or the insurance companies that you or your family member should either just roll over an die or go bankrupt? This bill makes sure that you won't have to be in such a situation where the insurance company leaves you to die.

[wacor]

Remus you are a robot

The DNC has brainwashed you well

[thingamajig]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

So the first bill sucked?...why should we trust another bill?....we see the intent of the bill.
Dont you expect in a new bill it will be written as to where it can get changed in the future without process?

You haven't shown me that the first bill sucked. You displayed a hokey video that doesn't make for much of a fair reading....

When you, yourself, haven't read the bill today that only a few hundred other eyes have seen, than you aren't going to be able to give a fair analysis. You are just selling your winger views. Here's a test for you, tell of one good thing Obama has done. If you can't find a few, you aren't being fair and honest.

I'll make my final assessment when I have something to assess! If you are content that 16% of our population can't afford to see a doctor, there's not much more that I can do for you except recommend a good psychiatrist in your area...

PS. I hope you have good Insurance - that psychiatrist is gonna cost you a bundle and most plans won't cover it.

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by thingamajig

You haven't shown me that the first bill sucked. You displayed a hokey video that doesn't make for much of a fair reading....

When you, yourself, haven't read the bill today that only a few hundred other eyes have seen, than you aren't going to be able to give a fair analysis. You are just selling your winger views. Here's a test for you, tell of one good thing Obama has done. If you can't find a few, you aren't being fair and honest.

I'll make my final assessment when I have something to assess! If you are content that 16% of our population can't afford to see a doctor, there's not much more that I can do for you except recommend a good psychiatrist in your area...

PS. I hope you have good Insurance - that psychiatrist is gonna cost you a bundle and most plans won't cover it.

Its a fair video..its public knowledge that much of the hidden agenda..was not for your benefit.
I dont have insurance for whats it worth...I have major health problems....but guess what... the govt has nothing for me...nor will they if things go through.

If they want to do something then work on bringing down costs..not a govt take over

[aka Brett]

perhaps this old video from before any of this ever started should be a wake up call

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=...ized-medicine=

[Remus_Lupin]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

A must see

Oh god no wonder you republicans are such idiots Did you even take the time to fact check what the video claimed? Let me give you a few examples, first here's the version of the healthcare bill that the video is referencing so that you can follow along and factcheck anything I say from here on:

1. The video claims that amount of healthcare is limited to $5000/person & $10,000/family a year according to page 29 line 4 through 16. That is complete BS. Page 29 line 4-16 state that $5000/person & 10,000/family is the maximum amount of COST SHARING incurred by an individual or a family not the maximum amount of healthcare available to them, which means that that's the maximum amount a family can be made to pay out of its own pocket by the insurance companies, which is an important piece of consumer protection and a massive improvement of the current law. With regards to the maximum amount of health care available to individuals or families, the bill explicitly states on Page 27 lines 10-12

(3) does not impose any annual or lifetime limit on the coverage of covered health care items and services;

2. The video claims that the bill states on "page 50 SEC. 152. Health care will be provided for ALL NON U.S CITIZENS ILLEGAL OR NOT"

COMPLETELY MADE UP. Here's the entire section 152 for you

(a) IN GENERAL.—Except as otherwise explicitly per23
mitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations con24
sistent with this Act, all health care and related services
25 (including insurance coverage and public health activities)
VerDate Nov 24 2008 23:22 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 079200 PO 00000 Frm 00050 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3200.IH H3200 jlentini on DSKJ8SOYB1PROD with BILLS
51
•HR 3200 IH
1 covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to
2 personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of
3 high quality health care or related services.
4 (b) IMPLEMENTATION.—To implement the require5
ment set forth in subsection (a), the Secretary of Health
6 and Human Services shall, not later than 18 months after
7 the date of the enactment of this Act, promulgate such
8 regulations as are necessary or appropriate to insure that
9 all health care and related services (including insurance
10 coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act
11 are provided (whether directly or through contractual, li12
censing, or other arrangements) without regard to per13
sonal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high
14 quality health care or related services.

Please point out where it states that healthcare will be provided to "ALL NON U.S CITIZENS ILLEGAL OR NOT" as your video claimed.

Here's the fact on this, the bill does not cover illegals and has provisions to enforce that http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...1/2065287.aspx

Similarly the video claims that the bill states or implies on page 85 line 7 that healthcare for AARP members will be rationed. Once again, a complete lie. This is what page 85 line 7 states

(c) SPECIFICATION OF BENEFIT LEVELS FOR PLANS.—

Infact if you read that entire section, all it is doing is describing the various plans without making any reference to AARP or rationing of any kind. If I'm wrong please point out.

I can go on and on & point out more blatant falsification in that video but I don't want to waste my time handholding someone through what is very easy to check stuff when that person is not interested in the truth if it does not fit their preconceptions or their political agenda.

[thingamajig]

Originally Posted by aka Brett

Its a fair video..its public knowledge that much of the hidden agenda..was not for your benefit.
I dont have insurance for whats it worth...I have major health problems....but guess what... the govt has nothing for me...nor will they if things go through.

If they want to do something then work on bringing down costs..not a govt take over

We seem to be doing an awful lot to defend our citizens only to let them die in a gutter somewhere because of some illness that could have been cured.

If you want anyone to listen to your ideas, perhaps you might want to stop applying the same piece of one or two line rhetoric that you apply to every topic. While we are at it, let's take the government out of defense also. We could, say, contract all that stuff out to a company like Black Water. Egads why are spending money to protect Germany?!? Let's take the government out of law enforcement, immigration and naturalization, air traffic control, etc. After all, our justice has issues. Also, let's take the government out of anti-trust litigation. Then we could all just be under one CEO in one big happy company. oops. But that's been tried before now hasn't it.