[Fidelista]

Oldie, Where lies Cuba in these ratings?? Curious. A comparison with other third world poor nations in the region would be interesting.

[pyritechips]

Oldie:

Can you provide a link? Quoted webpages should be linked. I can't find the page anywhere.

[oldie]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

Oldie:

Can you provide a link? Quoted webpages should be linked. I can't find the page anywhere.

Sorry chaps - just catching up with vB3


http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html = Old link


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/799814.stm = BBC

Numerous others !!!

Might this interest you - sent to me by an American Doctor friend from Florida http://www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm

Regards - Oldie

[eggplant43]

The last link is certainly powerful, and telling.

At 60, I'm old enough to recall when "doctoring" was an art, and science that was practiced. Where the doctor took the time to have a conversation, where collaboration was possible. Today, I view it as a business which is at the root of our decaying system.

I don't think the doctors are the central problem, although they certainly contribute to the problems, but would blame it on a systemic rot created by health-care providers, the pharmaceutical industry, the insurance industry, and the government systems. I believe that as long as health-care is bundled with employment, that there will be significant problems.

[oldie]

Hi Bruce. Never realised you were an Oldie Though I maybe should have -in light of your sensible posts

Many of the items in my last link are not simply a USA problem. Britain too are experiencing the same probs.

• 80,000 deaths per year due to infections in hospitals

• 106,000 deaths per year due to negative effects of drugs


These two are the worrying ones however

PS - there are many in the Medical profession who say the above figures could be quadrupled, if many post mortums were more thorough Wonder what Cadaver Queens views are???

Regards - Oldie (Bill)

[oldie]

Original link here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1482756.stm

Oldie

[pyritechips]

Quite all right Oldie, and thanks for the links. I must have spent an hour trying to find the rankings on the WHO site with no sucess!

I shall go through thos sites now...

[pyritechips]

I haven't read through all these posts yet but here two interesting and diametrically opposed views:

Read more here: http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-05-00.html

And here: http://www.centrecountyfordean.org/000807Myth.htm

July 5, 2000

We're Number 37 in Health Care!
by Julie Chan

Julie Chan is a research assistant at the Cato Institute.

Feeling ill? If so, you might consider catching the next plane out of here, because the World Health Organization (WHO) says your health is best served by countries like Andorra, Cyprus or even Colombia. Each outperforms the U.S. health care system on the WHO's recently issued World Health Report 2000.

The WHO rankings of 191 health systems worldwide placed the United States 37th, trailing countries like Malta and Oman and barely edging out dilapidated Cuba. Predictably, "ClintonCare" champions are using the report in their battle cry for reviving the movement toward government-controlled medicine. But the WHO study is much like the annual magazine rankings of colleges: It grabs plenty of headlines but rests on questionable analysis. A closer look at the WHO health care study reveals startling assumptions, critical lapses in statistical judgment, and a clearly predetermined political agenda...

And:

"Americans enjoy the best health care in the world," reads the 2000 GOP Platform adopted by Republican National Convention delegates on July 31, 2000. Perhaps it is one of the best kept secrets around, but the preceding quote, which is a commonly held belief in the U.S., rings astoundingly untrue. Yes, excellent medical care is available in the U.S., and ground-breaking medical research is conducted here. Most Americans, however, are not aware of the low U.S. rankings in studies comparing various countries' health care.

*Note: I am unsure of the author or source of the above article. It came up in a Google search on the topic.

[pyritechips]

LOL! Now I know! It's from Mr. Howard "The Manic" Dean supporters!

http://www.centrecountyfordean.org/

[Fidelista]

" Old people don't need companionship. They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use."-Homer

We Americans have to change our attitudes about "older Americans"--- they are useless!. I am waving a tiny flag as I speak!.
Really, I think we need to examine our motives. Is greed all that motivates us? tax price?. It seems as though maybe my purchase of a new car or notebook is more important than helping my fellow citizens protect their health/life.
Maybe we should be looking at how we meet our commitments to our brothers/sisters & not IF we will. Systems can be changed & changed again.
The Private sector will bury most--unless they have the capital--thats a FACT.
Its also a fact that healthcare will cost more than I want pay--lets examine systems and our motives. I think the conservative position is clear.
There is simply no way a working American {with no ins} can pay for the price of an operation now, what happens when private policy overides public?? I am not smart---but not stupid either!! {smile} All this greed needs to be stopped, and real things/ problems addressed. The world has a smorgasboard {love that word} of plans for care. If we are who we say we are--we can do better than we are doing. Helping ones brother should not be un-American or commie. Need to look at greed & what comes of it.
Just an opinion

[pyritechips]

Is greed all that motivates us? tax price?. It seems as though maybe my purchase of a new car or notebook is more important than helping my fellow citizens protect their health/life.

Yes, greed prevails.

People have long forgotten what money is. Instead of being our tool, it is now our master. It has become an end in itself, instead of a means.

[oldie]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

We Americans have to change our attitudes about "older Americans"--- they are useless!. I am waving a tiny flag as I speak!.

Kindly elaborate for Oldie please

Regards - Oldie

[eggplant43]

CQ is my dear friend, and is here far too infrequently for my tastes, but it is certainly understandable given her responsibilities. she has pointed out to me that things aren't as simple as I'd make them out to be, and I'm sure that's valid. However, I do wonder what the nature of US priorities are when there are over 43,000,000 of us that are uninsured.

Personally, I am one illness or injury away from total disaster, and that is sad, because we, as the "greatest nation" in our minds, could do so much better for and with each other.

It has been pointed out to me by my Conservative friends that not having health care insurance is a choice, just a matter of making it a priority. That could not be further from the truth in my case. At 60, with a pre-existing cancer, I am essentially uninsurable as a self-employed worker. Insurance for me in this state, if I could even find it would be well over $1,000.00 US per month, and the premiums would be going up on a semi-annual basis. How do I know this, that is what I experienced when I was paying for the insurance.

So I will gamble that I can make it until I'm 65 (now I believe 66), so that I can qualify for Social Security, and the concomitant Medicare. Wish me luck. In my case, I think I have a pretty good chance, as I have genetics on my side. In my wife's case, she doesn't. So we'll just have to see what happens.

Do I think my country "owes" this too me, no. Even though I served the military of my country for nearly 9 years, have been a good, contributing citizen who has never been unemployed, I'm pretty independent as well. However, I do feel there is a systemic health care problem that only gets worse with time, and not addressing it adds to the problem. Thus, the title of this thread.

[oldie]

Originally Posted by eggplant43

Do I think my country "owes" this too me, no. Even though I served the military of my country for nearly 9 years, have been a good, contributing citizen who has never been unemployed, I'm pretty independent as well. However, I do feel there is a systemic health care problem that only gets worse with time, and not addressing it adds to the problem. Thus, the title of this thread.

Hi Eggy. far be it for me to involve myself in USA Medical ethics, but I must disagree with you totally re the above quote. I say without hesitation that your country "does" owe it to you. And many other US citizens too.

We have much in common my friend, apart from age 9 years military (Navy) service - snap

Catch you later - Oldie

[angelize56]

Due to being on disability I am on Medicare/Medicaid.....I can see by the Medicare bill why this country is going to he11 in a handcart.....to rent my hospital bed, updraft machine, 02 concentrater, wheelchair and wheelchair legs (yes TWO separate charges!)....it costs $869 a month! I was amazed to see that! Then there was the one med I was given IV in the ICU to try to dissolve the pulmonary embolism....$2000 for each of the two IV infusions of it! $4000 and it didn't even work anyways! But I guess had it worked I might feel differently! I just read yesterday that many Drs. are going to go to a cash payment system only and charge less $$$....unfortunately even then low or moderate income people don't have cash sitting around! Take care. angel