[ekim68]

We know China's become a very major player in the world economy, but what about military?

U.S. tightens controls on military-use items to China

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States is imposing new export controls on high-tech goods ranging from aircraft to space communication systems that could be used by China's rapidly expanding military, the U.S. Commerce Department said on Friday.

The new regulation, which takes effect on Tuesday, also creates a "trusted customer" program that will allow approved companies in China to import certain high-tech goods without having to get an individual license, the department said.

"This new rule strikes the right balance in our complex relationship with China," Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez said. "It is a common-sense approach that will make it easier for U.S. companies to sell to pre-screened civilian customers in China, while at the same time denying access to U.S. technology that would contribute to China's military."

Pentagon and U.S. intelligence officials say China's total real military-related spending for 2007 could be between $85 billion and $125 billion, far higher than its stated $45 billion in 2007, up 17.8 percent from the year before.

Military analysts believe China's forces will continue to get stronger and pose a growing challenge to the U.S. military. China has recently unveiled a new fighter plane, blinded a U.S. satellite using a ground-based laser, and blasted one of its own satellites out of orbit with a ballistic missile.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...00774920070616

[laneseda]

It is hardly surprising that the Pentagon is worried about China's annual $100 billion budget for the enhancement of its military force over the last three years at least. It has every reason to be. The "Titan Rain" cyber-incursions (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...098961,00.html) were headache enough. But coupled with that came the following reports. Remember, these are a mere sample.

http://www.centralchronicle.com/20070616/1606301.htm
http://www.upi.com/Security_Terroris...networks/6502/
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/fron.../15/2003365268
http://www.upi.com/Security_Terroris..._growing/6053/

Check the Rand site for more in-depth analyses as well as
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=5601 and
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HF23Ad02.html (This article by Henry Liu runs to about 114 pages in its entirety but is well worth the read.)

Regards,
Lane

[oldie]

Originally Posted by laneseda

It is hardly surprising that the Pentagon is worried about China's annual $100 billion budget for the enhancement of its military force over the last three years at least. It has every reason to be. The "Titan Rain" cyber-incursions (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...098961,00.html) were headache enough. But coupled with that came the following reports. Remember, these are a mere sample.

http://www.centralchronicle.com/20070616/1606301.htm
http://www.upi.com/Security_Terroris...networks/6502/
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/fron.../15/2003365268
http://www.upi.com/Security_Terroris..._growing/6053/

Check the Rand site for more in-depth analyses as well as
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=5601 and
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HF23Ad02.html (This article by Henry Liu runs to about 114 pages in its entirety but is well worth the read.)

Regards,
Lane

Very interesting, informative post Lane Just wondering how many readers of this thread really understand why a nation, under no threat from anyone, should spend such large amounts on its military. Certainly can't be classed as defense

I subscribe to the Brad Pitt philosophy, boycott anything that comes out of China. China's record on human rights is totally unacceptable .. even the INFAMOUS DYING ROOMS never embarrassed those responsible

Mei-ming has lain this way for 10 days now: tied up in urine-soaked blankets, scabs of dried mucus growing across her eyes, her face shrinking to a skull, malnutrition slowly shrivelling her two-year old body. The orphanage staff call her room the "dying room", and they have abandoned here for the very same reasons her parents abandoned her shortly after she was born. She is a girl.

ARTICLE

Oldie

[iltos]

Originally Posted by ekim68

We know China's become a very major player in the world economy, but what about military?

U.S. tightens controls on military-use items to China

Pentagon and U.S. intelligence officials say China's total real military-related spending for 2007 could be between $85 billion and $125 billion, far higher than its stated $45 billion in 2007, up 17.8 percent from the year before.

Military analysts believe China's forces will continue to get stronger and pose a growing challenge to the U.S. military.

head 'em off at the pass....the figure i heard re: military spending in china was 52 billion....roughly 10% of what is spent in the united states.....

don't get me wrong...i'm all for curtailing the sale of weapons grade technology...

but before we start looking for a well armed enemy outside our borders, maybe it's time to look at the continued drive to develop cool new weapons here, and the message it sends to the rest of the world.....

we reap what we sow

[WarC]

It's all about Taiwan, baby!

[RSM123]

Or maybe reappraise who you trade with ?

Tens, if not hudnreds of thousands of western manufacturing jobs have been shifted overseas - and China has enjoyed 'favoured nation status' lnger than the UK, as I understand it.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by WarC

It's all about Taiwan, baby!

As a start IMO. China wants to be a world power -- and hold power over all Asia , the Pacific and influence the West. Not a far fetched idea.
Wonder what will happen if conflict between China and the Island comes ?
Will U.S. get involved militarily ? is it worth it ?.
Wonder what folks here think ?.
I have followed some military moves by China , that appear to be a set up for confrontation, battle with a major blue water fleet.
Military purchase, and what is acquired sometimes tells story. >f

[wacor]

Originally Posted by iltos

head 'em off at the pass....the figure i heard re: military spending in china was 52 billion....roughly 10% of what is spent in the united states.....

don't get me wrong...i'm all for curtailing the sale of weapons grade technology...

but before we start looking for a well armed enemy outside our borders, maybe it's time to look at the continued drive to develop cool new weapons here, and the message it sends to the rest of the world.....

we reap what we sow

You are right but it is a dog eat dog world. always has been that way and always will be unless we want to have chips implanted to control us. If you try to be nice then others will take advantage of the opportunity. Thats my story and i am sticking to it.

[Farmgirl22]

Originally Posted by RSM123

Or maybe reappraise who you trade with ?

Tens, if not hudnreds of thousands of western manufacturing jobs have been shifted overseas - and China has enjoyed 'favoured nation status' longer than the UK, as I understand it.

This makes you wonder, would China be anywhere nearly as capable (in the military sense) if we hadn't POURED money into their economy? If we would have made our "oh-so-intelligent" businessmen reconsider their plans to outsource to China, they probably would still be way behind us. Now we are getting screwed from two directions instead of just one...we lost jobs here, AND we helped them raise enough money to blow on a military. WAY TO GO AMERICA!!

Honestly though, why does America always get it's nose out of joint if someone else has a powerful military...do we think we have a monopoly on armed forces??! Why don't we just come out and say "America...We rule the world...pi$$ on everyone who thinks about taking a stand against us!!"

[wacor]

China is a threat due to mere numbers. Assuming a world war was not won with just nuclear weapons it will likely come down to manpower and they have that.

[ekim68]

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

This makes you wonder, would China be anywhere nearly as capable (in the military sense) if we hadn't POURED money into their economy? If we would have made our "oh-so-intelligent" businessmen reconsider their plans to outsource to China, they probably would still be way behind us. Now we are getting screwed from two directions instead of just one...we lost jobs here, AND we helped them raise enough money to blow on a military. WAY TO GO AMERICA!!

Honestly though, why does America always get it's nose out of joint if someone else has a powerful military...do we think we have a monopoly on armed forces??! Why don't we just come out and say "America...We rule the world...pi$$ on everyone who thinks about taking a stand against us!!"

Well said mostly....For years China's had a cozy relationship with our country for business reasons. They've collected a lot of our jobs and factories. And, now they're reaping their rewards. Therefore they can spend, kind of like capitalism, and make a big military and be more imposing...In an economic-kung-fu kind of thing, is the student becoming the master?

[Farmgirl22]

Originally Posted by ekim68

Well said mostly....is the student becoming the master?

Coming from you, I'm going to take that as a very high compliment...so thanks!!

As far as the student becoming the master...was China ever a "student"? I think it was more likely that they have just let our arrogance have free rein while they bided their time. But, I could be wrong....*shrugs*

[iltos]

Originally Posted by wacor

You are right but it is a dog eat dog world. always has been that way and always will be unless we want to have chips implanted to control us. If you try to be nice then others will take advantage of the opportunity. Thats my story and i am sticking to it.

you're right....it's always been a dog eat dog world
funny tho, how once it got turned all around...a sort of god eat god world...that it became "wisdom" to broker weapons to the highest bidder, to arm the lesser of two evils and hope for the best.....er, i mean.....pretend that we could control the future, and to spend hundreds of billions of dollars towards that end, but get all indignant when anyone else tries their hand at it.

napolean said to let the dragon sleep....but we went there and offered them $24 dollars worth of captialism for an island of cheap imports....

times change

[ekim68]

Originally Posted by Farmgirl22

As far as the student becoming the master...was China ever a "student"? I think it was more likely that they have just let our arrogance have free rein while they bided their time. But, I could be wrong....*shrugs*

Well said again...I agree they're very patient...They have five-year plans....And most of us just live day-to-day...

[laneseda]

Thank you for the kind comment, oldie.

You mention you see no reason why a country such as China, with no perceivable enemies, should wish to enhance their military capability. I agree with you completely. But then again, take a look at this article and let me know if you can make any sense of the allegations made about China by the Indians, assuming they are true. I'm old enough to remember quite clearly the news of China's incursion against India in 1962. This might be of close interest to the players around the international chess board who may wish to counter China militarily or otherwise.

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=88265

Regards,
Lane