[lotuseclat79]

The Voter Guide: Seven key distortions of the campaign.

This article classifies each distortion into (Barely True, Pants on Fire, Half True, False) for the following:

They're cutting Medicare!
Republicans want to privatize Social Security!
"Obamacare!"
The largest tax increase in history?
The stimulus: Jobs for China, Ants in Africa
Foreign money in politics
Finally, the deciding vote

-- Tom

[poochee]

Thanks for the great site. Lots of info there.

[paisanol69]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

The Voter Guide: Seven key distortions of the campaign.

This article classifies each distortion into (Barely True, Pants on Fire, Half True, False) for the following:

They're cutting Medicare!
Republicans want to privatize Social Security!
"Obamacare!"
The largest tax increase in history?
The stimulus: Jobs for China, Ants in Africa
Foreign money in politics
Finally, the deciding vote

-- Tom

the terms we use today, and accept from others as credable. As far as I am concerned, something is either true, or it is false, when it comes to what someone said, or claims as fact. There is NO "barely true" situation. You are either telling the truth, or you are lieing intentionally, in order to gain some benefit from the lie.

Here is an example, from your link Tom, that pisses me off, when I read it...

House speaker Nancy Pelosi said a bill to aid state and local governments "is fully paid-for by closing costly corporate tax loopholes." Actually, more than half of it was paid for with future cuts to the food stamp program -- Barely True.

...so which is it, is it fully paid for by cutting corporate tax loopholes or not !!! if not, then it is a lie, not a politically correct "Barely True"


Dont mis-understand me, I am not directing this at you Tom, or even in this case, Nancy Pelosi, as quoted above. My anger is directed at the sheep who accept these terms as something of value, simply because CNN, or some other media source uses them.

As poochee pointed out, there is some good information at your link Tom, however to consider it as true, or barely true, half true, pants on fire, or false.....
....is simply the sign of a brain dead, programmed member of the public, who has lost the ability to think for themselves, and would rather have some camera hungry personality do the thinking for them.

[lotuseclat79]

Hi paisanol69,

One thing you need to consider is that none of the distortions are true, and therefore also not necessarily totally false depending on the way they are presented, given that a distortion may be a combination of some true and some false elements woven together to create the distortion. Sorry, but your criteria of either true or false doesn't exist in the real world where distortions of facts are concerned. This occurs because there must be some element of truth that captures the targeted audience that appeals to their gullibility, e.g. never being bothered by the facts, and there you have the foundation of a distortion presented as truth. This is in concert with your statement that

"....is simply the sign of a brain dead, programmed member of the public, who has lost the ability to think for themselves, and would rather have some camera hungry personality do the thinking for them".

If more than half of of a bill to aid state and local governments was paid for with future cuts to the food stamp program as opposed to "is fully paid-for by closing costly corporate tax loopholes" - then as you surely must know, all lies are not so cut and dried as you would paint them. For example, there are white lies, half-truths, 1/4 truths, and yes the out-and-out bald-face lie spoken with a forked tongue. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a politician that tells the whole truth and nothing but the truth (required in court for testimony under oath at risk of perjury) except in movies like "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington". Accept the premise that "All politicians lie" and move on. Yes, indeed, the sheep do like to have someone else do their thinking for them.

-- Tom

[paisanol69]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

Hi paisanol69,

One thing you need to consider is that none of the distortions are true, and therefore also not necessarily totally false depending on the way they are presented, given that a distortion may be a combination of some true and some false elements woven together to create the distortion. Sorry, but your criteria of either true or false doesn't exist in the real world where distortions of facts are concerned. This occurs because there must be some element of truth that captures the targeted audience that appeals to their gullibility, e.g. never being bothered by the facts, and there you have the foundation of a distortion presented as truth. This is in concert with your statement that

If more than half of of a bill to aid state and local governments was paid for with future cuts to the food stamp program as opposed to "is fully paid-for by closing costly corporate tax loopholes" - then as you surely must know, all lies are not so cut and dried as you would paint them. For example, there are white lies, half-truths, 1/4 truths, and yes the out-and-out bald-face lie spoken with a forked tongue. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a politician that tells the whole truth and nothing but the truth (required in court for testimony under oath at risk of perjury) except in movies like "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington". Accept the premise that "All politicians lie" and move on. Yes, indeed, the sheep do like to have someone else do their thinking for them.

-- Tom

although I understand what you are saying, and agree with a large part of how you stated it, my objection to the politicians, or anyone else for that matter"getting away with the lies" is the fact that we the poeple ALLOW them to make those statements, and do not hold them accountable for what they have claimed.


and to re-state what I said in my earlier post..using Pelosi as an example...

House speaker Nancy Pelosi said a bill to aid state and local governments "is fully paid-for by closing costly corporate tax loopholes."

That is an out and out lie, as she darn well knew it wasn't true when she said it. If we don't hold the media, and the people telling the falsehoods accountable, then whats the point of even being involved in the political process.

Sorry Tom, you may feel its acceptable for a politican to stand there and tell a bald faced lie to the press, thus the american people, but I will not accept that behavior as the daily norm, no matter how many people do it, or consider it ok to do.

[lotuseclat79]

Hi paisanol69,

It is not a matter if me feeling anything or accepting that behavior. it is just an accepted fact in our culture that most all politicians lie in order to shade the truth in their favor to get reelected. It is a part of the fabric of being a politician, and it is up to the voter to distinguish the truth by fact finding and doing due diligence rather than what news or any outlet may say about the politician individually.

For example, with regard to the notion of "change" that Republicans have been pitching for this election cycle - do you really believe that Republicans have the wherewithall to contain their propensity to spend - just like the Democrats? If you do believe that Fairy Tale - then there is a certain bridge in Brooklyn, N.Y. up for sale you might also be interested in purchasing for the measly sum of the worth of your vote.

Another example, is if you look at the percentage of National debt to GDP in both Democratic vs Republican administrations - the Republicans always produce a positive %, while the Democrats produce a negative percentage. You do the math - and Republicans suck at fiscal responsibility - period! Even though they will tell you differently - if you want to believe their lies!

-- Tom

[paisanol69]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

Hi paisanol69,

It is not a matter if me feeling anything or accepting that behavior. it is just an accepted fact in our culture that most all politicians lie in order to shade the truth in their favor to get reelected. It is a part of the fabric of being a politician, and it is up to the voter to distinguish the truth by fact finding and doing due diligence rather than what news or any outlet may say about the politician individually.

For example, with regard to the notion of "change" that Republicans have been pitching for this election cycle - do you really believe that Republicans have the wherewithall to contain their propensity to spend - just like the Democrats? If you do believe that Fairy Tale - then there is a certain bridge in Brooklyn, N.Y. up for sale you might also be interested in purchasing for the measly sum of the worth of your vote.

Another example, is if you look at the percentage of National debt to GDP in both Democratic vs Republican administrations - the Republicans always produce a positive %, while the Democrats produce a negative percentage. You do the math - and Republicans suck at fiscal responsibility - period! Even though they will tell you differently - if you want to believe their lies!

-- Tom

No, I don't believe the republicans are any better than the democrats. I guess thats my whole point, and it seems that these days, more than ever before, it's more about which party a person belongs to, and how often that person can point a finger at the opposing political party, rather than hold any politician accountable for their actions.

That was the point of my initial response to this thread, the apathy of the american voter. We, the voter are directly responsable for the lack of quality in our politicians, by doing exactly what you state above, that is, to accept it as fact. Once it becomes an accepted fact, then there is no hope for a change. I don't accept it , I think it can be different, if enough people get fed up with the "status quo" in today's politics.

Right now, I can honestly say that there is nobody, in either party, that I would feel comfortable voting for, as our next president.
If a cantidate comes along, and displays a shred of decency, and personal integrity, based on their past record, I would vote for them in a heartbeat,and I wouldn't care which party they belong to.

[harryjone]

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