[stepheno]

I currently have a Fuji MX1200 which for obvious reasons I want to ditch. I 've spent weeks reading every review, forum, spec sheet etc (it doesn't help that reviewers can't agree) and have narrowed it down to three cameras within my price range. They are -

Fuji Finepix S602 (3.3 mp, 6x zoom)
Fuji Finepix S5000 (3.2 mp, 10 x zoom)
Olympus C-750UZ (4mp, 10 x zoom)

assuming all things are equal, and I know it's down to my choice in the end, I would appreciate opinions as to...

1 Am I losing out if I go for the 6x zoom instead of 10x?
2 As an experienced beginner am I likely to want/need a hot shoe later on (S5000 hasn't got one)
3 Is Compact Flash Type II so superior to SD?
4 How serious is lens shake in a 10x zoom body?

On the general specs I would be happy with any of the three, although aesthetically I prefer the SLR style body of Fuji, but opinions to the above questions would help. Thanks in anticipation.

stepheno

[slipe]

1) I don’t think 10X is that useful without a tripod or image stabilization except in direct sunlight. 10X comes to about 380mm and you would have to use a shutter speed of about 1/400 to keep the picture sharp. Maybe 1/300 if you are really good at stabilizing the camera.

The 750 is f8 at full 10X and the Fuji is f9 at 10X. There is no way to get a decent shutter speed so you can take a long tele shot with those f stops except in bright sunlight. f8 lets in more light than f9 BTW. You can raise the ISO to 400 but you end up with a shot so noisy it lowers resolution. Even that is problematic with 10X and f8 or 9.

2) The built in flash on most cameras is pretty weak and tends to give red eye. It appears that all three are rated at ISO 200 which is noisy. At ISO 100 the flash range is 10-12 feet probably. If you want to take decent flash shots a flash attachment is a good thing. You don’t need dedicated flash units and can get a decent auto flash unit for $40 or so.

3) Compact flash isn’t superior to SD in any camera application I know of. SD is a little pricier but not by much. SD has become standard in many devices. I can pull the SD card from my camera and view the images on my Palm Titanium C when I am away from home. The Titanium T3 would be even better but I wanted the keyboard. I do think CF is more desirable just in that there are often great rebate deals you don’t usually find on SD. And if you ever move up to a pro level DSLR it will take CF. With CF you have to watch the brand and specs but SD is usually as fast as most cameras.

I don’t much like xD. They are used in only Fuji and Olympus products as far as I know and that is likely to remain the case as SD is now the standard small card just as CF is the standard large card. xD cards are pricier than CF or SD and you will likely never use them in another device. I have one in my Oly and am not happy about having to pay that much for what I consider a dead end technology. All three of the cameras you listed use xD, so the question of whether CF is superior to SD is moot unless you want to consider other cameras.

4) Read the answer to question 1. It is very serious unless you want to carry a tripod. You are pretty much limited to hazy bright or direct sunlight.

The Fuji 602 takes terrific sound movies at 640 X 480 and 30FPS. I know you aren’t buying a videocam, but the 320 X 240 movies on the others are practically useless.

[starchild]

Don't know if it's okay to post links to other forums here (guess I'll find out but I came across this one while comparing models of Epson

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/

Don't know how active they all are,or if you'll get answers, but you might find something by reading the posts. They seem to have every brand there is.

Not sure what price rance the ones you're considering are, but I think in my case I was asking about older models, when everyone was (apparently) into the newer, fancier and more expensive ones.

~ Carrie

[stepheno]

Thanks Slipe. I understand your answer to Q1. I am leaning towards the 602 because of the hot shoe and excellent video . Also according to the spec it uses CF and Smart Media. I believe the Microdrive is very good, plus I already have some SM cards. I also like the SLR type body.

I can spend between £300 - £350 so if you have any better cameras to suggest in that range please let me know.

Starchild – thanks for the link. Been there a hundred times reading reviews and comments.

stepheno

[milomorai]

actually, slipe, the oly c750 aperture range w/tele is f3.7-8.0-f8 is the smallest f-stop that that camera has. shooting at f3.7 will give an acceptable shutter speed for hand holding although it is always better w/a tripod.

stephano, i would suggest going to a camera store that has all three models, take pictures w/all of them and compare the results. if possible, print out the images - that is the best way to compare the products. the olympus will most likely have the best optics and that is very important

[stepheno]

Thanks milomorai - I'll try to do that. The S5000 and 750 are easy to get hold of in shops but the 602 if I buy it may be an internet job.

stepheno

[slipe]

Originally posted by milomorai:
actually, slipe, the oly c750 aperture range w/tele is f3.7-8.0-f8 is the smallest f-stop that that camera has. shooting at f3.7 will give an acceptable shutter speed for hand holding although it is always better w/a tripod.

Actually, you are right. Didn’t make sense but it was late and I didn’t bother to look further. You still lose almost an f stop going to full zoom and can’t handhold a 10X shot except in very good light.

Using the reciprocal rule you still need the 1/380 shutter speed to shoot at full 10X zoom - 1/300 would probably still give sharp pictures shown 100%. Most pictures look sharp reduced to screen size but the prints suffer. You need fairly bright light to get 1/300 at f3.7. You likely would need a tripod on an overcast day. Down Florida way that doesn’t happen often but I don’t think there would be that many days you could hand hold in the UK at full 10X zoom.

You can download full sized images from review sites like Steves Digicams and Imaging Resource and compare them. They are pretty straightforward in taking them directly from the camera without any processing and include some standard shots for comparison between cameras. I think it would be a safer bet to compare their images as you aren’t going to be familiar enough with the cameras to know someone hadn’t left a setting wrong.

I forgot the 602 was old enough to still use SM. They are slow and obsolete (SM – not the camera). I think you do better with regular CF cards than with a Microdrive. It had a price and size advantage in the past but not any more. Solid state CF is more reliable than a tiny portable hard drive with moving parts and you are unlikely to need a card over a Gb for a 3Mp camera. No reason to shoot at over 3Mp as the camera doesn’t do any better job upsampling to 6Mp than your image editor will. With 3Mp images at best quality JPG you can probably count on about 1 shot or a little less per Mb of storage. Upsampling and saving a 35Mb TIFF is absurd – you probably won’t ever do that.

Unless you are left eye dominant and concerned your nose is going to fall on the LCD every time you shoot I think it is a safe bet to order the 602 without holding it if you decide from the features it is what you want. It is a very well liked camera with a nice grip area. I would want to spend some time with an odd shape like a Sony 727 or 828 to see whether I could live with it, but The Fuji 602 is very nice to shoot with albeit a little large.

I really like the Oly remote that comes with the 750. I use mine often. It is great for tripod shots so you don’t have to mess with the self-timer or buy a cable release. It is also great for reviewing and showing stuff on a TV and it is nice for including yourself in pictures. Of the cameras you listed I would probably go for the Oly, but it takes pricey and dead end (IMO) xD cards. I already have a 256Mb xD card, but I would avoid them if possible if I didn’t have one. But it is more compact than the 602, 4Mp, has a hot shoe and might have slightly better optics. It has CA at long telephoto but any camera with a 10X zoom is going to exhibit CA. The movies from the 602 are spectacular compared to other digicams but you would need a large CF card to take 640 X 480 movies at 30 frames/sec.

[stepheno]

Slipe - your follow up was very persuasive about the remote. I feel happy about having a 6x zoom and about the fact that the 602 is not the newest kid on the block. Ill do as you suggest about the images on Steve's site. Many thanks for everyones input - it's clarified a lot of things in my mind.

stepheno

[milomorai]

i am glad that i could help.

slipe, you are right about not having very many overcast days where i live - most of the time the oly would be at 1/500 or so @f8. i got it's predecessor, the c720, for my wife and she loves it. this from a woman who wouldn't touch my nikon 6000 slr. oh, well, she will never know the joy of framing that unique shot and seeing what it really looks like when you press the shutter release. oooooooooooohhhh!! WHAT A RUSH!

[stepheno]

Slipe - did as you suggested and d/l images from Steve's. They all look pretty good to me but no doubt you would spot the faults. However from an image point of view I think any of the three cameras will satisfy my level of ability.

Thanks for your help.

stepheno

[ram_n]

hello, i live in israel and i am new in the whole video editing bussiness.
since we use video in the pal system here in israel, i am wondering if in the end all my video data enters the computer, if it is necesary that i buy a pal system camera? will a ntsc camera be good aswell?

[slipe]

Whether it is PAL or NTSC makes no difference for viewing on a computer. The computer just has to know whether it is .avi or .mpeg and open the default viewer for the format. Some cameras are dual switchable between PAL & NTSC and some are set for the area. It matters only for viewing on a TV.

Check whether the camera has dual capability. Also check whether there are firmware updates for the camera. The firmware updates for cameras that can’t use both systems has to be specific for areas. Just install the firmware for a PAL area in that case.

I have read that many TVs can read either.

Edit: Just noticed you are referring to video editing. The thread is about digital cameras and my response was specific to the movies generated by them. It is my understanding that you want to get the right system for a camcorder. I suppose you could change the frame rate in sophisticated software.