[JohnWill]

This is a custom home, and I'm already trying to get the trim from the manufacturer of the Windows, which is where the builder got it. However, I haven't managed to get them to actually admit that it's available.

You're right, as you can see, it's stained trim. I'm taking a run at stripping it, patching it with stainable filler, and refinishing it. Seems a lot easier than rolling my own, even though that would be an interesting exercise.

[buck52]

The little I know you I think you would greatly enjoy the challenge but... as you can also tell it is a ton of work/time to do correctly

have fun

[JohnWill]

I have been building straight moldings of pretty complicated shapes to repair some water damaged window frames, but I haven't taken a run at a curved piece yet. All of my work is normally straight pieces. Curves would introduce a whole new set of challenges.

I guess you'd probably pivot the wood through the router table to trim the edge even, but it's not clear to me how you'd use the Freud Door and Window Casing Bit with the table, mine wouldn't do that. Are you thinking you'd suspend the piece vertically over the table on the pivot to route the profile? I guess that would work, but I'd have more time in fixtures than molding!

As I said, I'd also have to find one in 1/4" shank or invest in a different router. With all the 1/4" bits I have, I hate to think about starting over with 1/2" bits!

[xgerryx]

Originally Posted by JohnWill

Are you thinking you'd suspend the piece vertically over the table on the pivot to route the profile? I guess that would work, but I'd have more time in fixtures than molding!

That is how its done but the above mentioned bit would need the shank on the other end to do it this way. (see attached images)

With a cut of your profile you would be better off using a spindle moulder (moulding plane or shaper, depending what language used) rather than a router. The moulder has a much higher tip speed which gives a much cleaner cut. It gets quite involved even to the point of selecting timber with the short grain going the right way.

I agree, cleaning up what you have is going to be the most practical approach.


PS: The spindle moulder has always been the favorite of all my woodwork machinery. I built my own one in 1978 and still really enjoy using it now. Theres something really magic watching the shavings flying off and seeing the result feeding out past the cutterhead.

[hewee]

Well I bet they never used a router to make that trim but had a big table shaper like this or bigger http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/indus...ticleID=501342 and I bit you don't have one. I can see it taking a lot of time to make and even more doing it over and over if you don't get it right the first time.

Also if your calling the builder it may be better to go to one of there job sites and talk to the super or other workers there that could tell you where it comes from then the office that may not like giving out info.

Then any patching and stain you do if you use the same wood test it out on the back side first.

[buck52]

I agree with Gerry... I grabed that link quick to show that the profile was a stock one that should be still available

this is a much better job for a shaper or moulder

I have never tried a spindle moulder but have medium sized spindle shaper with a cutter head that excepts both stock and custom knifes... it works great

[Guyzer]

I work on a professional grade moulder all day long. That's what I do for a living. The cutter heads are about 6" - 8" in diameter and cost close to $700.00 each. That doesn't include the blades which number between 2 - 4 depending on the shape I'm doing. The blades average about $40.00 each ( the intricate ones are around $80.00 ) and last me a week before I have to send them out. The piece in question would be done laying flat, not standing up. Because the piece is curved it would be very difficult to hold it upright against the fence and feed it by hand. I'll take my camera to work today and fire off a few shots depending which profiles I end up doing today.

[Guyzer]

This is a combination of two heads opposed to each other. I use 'em to shape both sides of the piece at the same time.



This is the feeder I use with the fence attached to the machine. I can and have fed stock through this by hand and it's hard... on the fingers when you slip. The cutters in the first shot is what ate the tip of my finger. ( yes the fence was attached )
It is also difficult to hold the piece by hand. Consider if you will... it's spinning at 8900 RPM and chewing the wood like it was paper.



When I do curved stuff I place this bearing on the shaft and set the cutter on top of it with the blades facing down. The bearing allows the wood to rest against it thus setting the distance from the edge to the finished profile. To set the depth you raise / lower the shaft.



On top of the bearing I place a cutter, some spacers and cap it with a nut that I torque down. I have many and just used this as an example which happens to be 6".



Then I place this guard above it and bolt it in place. It won't stop a finger from going it but at least you get to keep most of the hand. I say that because as mentioned before I shape all of our curved stuff by hand. It takes a lot of down pressure from me as well as I have to use my body where able to stop the piece from kicking.



I thought about holding John's moulding upright, by hand, and as experienced as I am I doubt you could pay me enough to push a curved piece through. I just can't see how you could push against a fence tight enough and feed it through without it kicking out or upwards and without it exploding in some fashion. ( yes it happens quite often )

[JohnWill]

Just for laughs, I cut a circular piece of pine and pivoted it through the router table to trim the edge perfectly smooth and to the correct radius. That worked well, but the next step would be far more difficult. I'd also have to figure out how to do the inside curve, not to mention having the proper equipment to actually do the real surface of the piece.

I'm stripping the old wood and patching/staining it, clearly this would be far to complicated for me to tackle with my equipment. I doubt that one set of Window trim is justification for $1000 (probably more) for additional equipment.

Great pictures BTW, it was educational, just not practical for me.

[Guyzer]

Originally Posted by JohnWill

JI'd also have to figure out how to do the inside curve

Even with my equipment it's difficult enough to do a large sweeping inside radius never mind a shorter one like you are faced with.

The only way I would tackle something like that would be to have a bit that would do the entire thing from the outside inward in one pass unless I had a machine where the tool was sticking upwards from the middle of the table. That way at least you could do your pass from the inside and nothing would be in it's way.

I wish you well on your decision to repair said piece. Then again, if you spent the dough for new equipment at least it would last you the rest of your life. Not to mention all the fun you could have making other rare and hard to find stuff for friends, family and miscellaneous malcontents.

[JohnWill]

I'm guessing that my investment in specialized routing equipment of that magnitude would never pay off. I think I'll invest my tool budget in things like a better bandsaw, perhaps a surface plainer, etc. Those are tools that I can use a lot more often.

I actually thought of a way to trim the inside of the piece similar to the way I did the outside. I'd just have to mount the piece on the pivot arm under it and pivot it just like the other pass to cut the inside. I can remove the fence from my router table and have the cutter sticking up through the center just as you describe. However, I still can't get by the problem of actually cutting the complex curves of the actual surface on a curved piece, and I suspect trying to swing that by the cutters would be a real exercise in futility!

It's been an interesting intellectual exercise, but way too difficult for the task at hand. The stripping and refinishing seems to be sufficient, though not perfect. In truth, from the distance from the trim to anyone looking at it, the flaws will probably be almost invisible. I know that I'm going to do my best to not notice them.

[xgerryx]

Originally Posted by Guyzer

I thought about holding John's moulding upright, by hand, and as experienced as I am I doubt you could pay me enough to push a curved piece through. I just can't see how you could push against a fence tight enough and feed it through without it kicking out or upwards and without it exploding in some fashion. ( yes it happens quite often )

Hi Guyzer
The trick is to make a vertical jig as mentioned earlier to swing the piece to be machined past the cutter head. If you would like some more details get back to us and I'll start another thread with better sketch's and give it a go to explain and show how its done.
It makes a fun project for anyone with a spindle moulder or for doing smaller pieces with a table router.

[buck52]

cutting the flat piece to the correct curve/radius is very easy...

make a pattern from plywood and clamp it to a piece of stock cut close to the size... then with a pattern bit trim it ...

making the profile is another story as everyone has said

ship a sample to Guy and have him whip out a couple of miles of it for you...

[Guyzer]

Originally Posted by buck52

ship a sample to Guy and have him whip out a couple of miles of it for you...

I have just shown you my machine which I use to make smaller stuff on. If you want a few miles we gotta use the big gun. It's about 12' long and will fire the stuff out like spaghetti .
The finished product is unlike spaghetti though. We use it to make the real fancy noodles.

[JohnWill]

Originally Posted by buck52

cutting the flat piece to the correct curve/radius is very easy...

make a pattern from plywood and clamp it to a piece of stock cut close to the size... then with a pattern bit trim it ...

making the profile is another story as everyone has said

ship a sample to Guy and have him whip out a couple of miles of it for you...

That's what I tried to describe, that part I can do, it's the pattern on the curve that's more difficult!