[n2xlr8n]

First of all, I've really tried to find answers to these questions. If I didn't really need help, I wouldn't be here.

Secondly, I have $0 budget for this.

Now to the chase...I was given a ten-year-old Dell PC with Windows 98. It will run for a few minutes, then shut down. I've gone through the troubleshooting and eliminated a few things.

It does not shut down in Safe Mode, so that rules out the power supply, overheating, and (I would think) memory problems. This has led me to believe the problem is related to A) software, B) virus, or C) hardware that is disabled in Safe Mode (such as a ZIP drive).

I took the hard drive out and connected it to my PC which has Trend Micro Internet Security and Trojan Remover. Trend Micro identified a few viruses, none of which are known to shut a PC down, and eliminated those. Trojan Remover does not identify any problems.

I put the hard drive back in the PC, booted up, and it shut down within a minute or two. Trend Micro no longer supports Win98, but I've managed to install other antivirus programs - BitDefender Free Edition v.10, EAV Antivirus Suite Free Edition, ClamWin Antivirus, VirIT eXplorer Lite, and Multi Virus Cleaner 2009. Unfortunately, I can't update the data files because A) the PC shuts down, or B) Safe Mode doesn't provide Internet access. Only BitDefender identified viruses, but none are known to shut a PC down.

So here are my questions:

1. Is there a way to get Internet access in Safe Mode?

2. Is there a way to stop the computer from shutting down long enough for me to update and scan (which may be several hours)?

3. With the drive connected to my good PC, what can I do to clean or fix it other than virus scan, trojan scan, etc.?

4. If I re-install Windows 98, how will it affect the registry? I.e., will it eliminate bad registry entries?

5. Any other advice on how to work on a PC that keeps shutting down?

Thanks much!

[blues_harp28]

Hi many processes and drivers do not load in safe mode and that may be part of the problem.
But first try Restoring the registry.
Reboot.
Tap F 8 and choose Command prompt.
Type.
scanreg /restore [note space]
Choose date prior to the problem..not the oldest.

If that does not help..
In Safe Mode - click start>run>type.
msconfig
In the startup tab..untick all
Except ScanRegistry and SystemTray
Apply>ok>reboot.

If still not starting in normal mode.
F 8 at startup>choose Step By Step Confirmation.
You may see what is failing to load.

[n2xlr8n]

I forgot to include in the original post that I had gone through the selective start-up process, unchecked everything, and it still shut down.

I didn't try restoring the registry because the owner of this PC has been using it for months with this problem. I haven't tried scanreg yet, but you're right - I should.

Last night, I had decided I would re-install Windows, and even reformat the drive, if necessary. Amazingly, I came in this morning, started the PC, and it has stayed on long enough for me to re-install BitDefender, update the files, and scan (31% after 2:40). So far, it has identified 53 infected objects by 33 viruses, which is what I had expected.

I was also told this morning that Safe Mode may not produce enough heat to cause a shut-down if it is an overheating problem. So I'll look into that again.

At least now, it seems like I can get it scanned. Either viruses are the cause (or part of the problem), or if not, at least I can get it cleaned up, rule that out, and move on.

Thanks again for your response!

[blues_harp28]

Good news - keep us updated.

[Ed999]

1. Is there a way to get Internet access in Safe Mode?
No. The modem drivers can't load. No hardware drivers can load in Safe Mode.


2. Is there a way to stop the computer from shutting down long enough for me to update and scan (which may be several hours)?

Well done on your progress to date. If it is an overheating problem: -
(a) Open the case to improve air circulation. Don't touch anything inside!
(b) Alternatively, observing proper anti-static precautions, buy and fit a case fan to improve cooling.


3. With the drive connected to my good PC, what can I do to clean or fix it other than virus scan, trojan scan, etc.?

Many things. See this page: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/bridip/recovery.htm


4. If I re-install Windows 98, how will it affect the registry? I.e., will it eliminate bad registry entries?

It will eliminate all your software, and all your hardware too. Windows will no longer be able to find the device drivers needed to run any of the hardware peripherals, e.g. modem, printer, scanner, because you will have deleted them from the hard disk. And all the installed programs will not work, except Windows itself. It is a suicide option.

Slightly less rash is to obtain an upgrade version of Windows 98 on CD, i.e. one that only installs a new C:\WINDOWS directory, rather than a full install version that wipes your whole disk. Then rename C:\WINDOWS folder to C:\WINOLD in DOS first, before doing the install. That way, the old driver files get preserved, not deleted. And you get a new C:\WINDOWS directory, but if necessary you can delete it and put the old one back (by renaming C:\WINOLD back to C:\WINDOWS). And when the driver installation wizard asks for files you can point it to C:\WINOLD and its subdirectories.


5. Any other advice on how to work on a PC that keeps shutting down?

You can't! The only viable option is to disinfect the virus, and any other malware present, and then to make full use of the advice at point 3 above.

[n2xlr8n]

I had the cabinet open most of the time. I don't think it was an overheating problem, but I can't be sure.

Here's what I ended up doing:

1. Tripled the memory.
2. Replaced the power supply.
3. Replaced the video card.
4. Re-formatted the drive.
5. Re-installed Windows 98.
6. Re-installed the device drivers I needed.
7. Re-installed all the software.
8. Installed BitDefender.
9. Installed Trojan Remover.
10. Installed VirIT eXplorer.
11. Scanned and tested it.

In the end, it was running so well I wanted to keep it for myself. So I don't know what the problem was. Here's what I suspect: Every time I tried to defrag, I received a message telling me there were errors on the hard drive that had to be repaired before it could be defragged. I ran ScanDisk, repaired the errors, and continued. I had to go through this process several times. When I re-formatted the hard drive, I think it either corrected the errors for good, if that's possible, or maybe just moved things around in a way that doesn't allow the errors to cause it to shut down.

The last thing I did was establish three pages of rules for the owner to abide by if she wanted to keep the PC running. I'm not a big fan of rules, but sometimes, they're necessary.

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to offer your suggestions!

[blues_harp28]

Thanks for the update -

[Ed999]

Based on what you found, I suspect that there were (are!) bad sectors on the hard disk.

The re-formatting process forces/enables FORMAT.COM to swap-out the bad sectors, and replace them with spare sectors from the reserve sector pool (oh yes, there really is such a thing!), and the upshot would typically be that the newly formatted disk appears to have the same capacity as before, if there were enough spare sectors to cope.

However, the unanswered question is: what caused those bad sectors in the first place? The usual cause is incipient disk failure. In my experience, once a disk starts to go bad it will (quickly) go all the way. It needs a full surface scan once a week, from now on, to detect the first signs of disk failure. And a full weekly back-up of all user data is also a must.

But the safest course is to clone it on a new disk right now! This disk is going to fail, and it may do so without any prior warning.