Tech Support Guy Forums - Civilized Debate http://forums.techguy.org en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:23:33 GMT vBulletin 30 http://static.techguy.org/v38/images/misc/rss.jpg Tech Support Guy Forums - Civilized Debate http://forums.techguy.org How to feed the world http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878949-how-feed-world.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:41:17 GMT The Economist article: How to feed the world (http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=14915144). *Business as usual will not do it* -- Tom The Economist article: How to feed the world.

Business as usual will not do it

-- Tom ]]> Civilized Debate lotuseclat79 http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878949-how-feed-world.html California Democrats Raising Tuition by 32% so that Govt workers retire millionaires! http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878851-california-democrats-raising-tuition-32-a.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:26:22 GMT California's Democratic controlled government has decided to raise tuition for its students by 32%. This to make up for the enormous pension benefits that are being paid to government workers. What happens here in California is that government Unions donate about 99% to Democrats, who then pay off the unions by doubling the size of goverment workers and providing 90% pension benefits so they can retire at age 50!!!! :rolleyes:

I had some other threads on this and said that what would happen is that other valuable services would be cut because Democrats are too afraid to take on the government unions who are stealing from the middle class taxpayer and the poor. Everyone of you Moore-Ons that vote for a Democrat need to know that you are voting to continue the most corrupt system in existence today--the government unions use taxpayer money to get Democrats elected and to control the press and then the Democrats pay off the unions by raising taxes to pay for enormous union benefits. We now retire most government employees in California as Millionairres!!! :rolleyes:

Consider the article below that was in the LA Times--certainly no conservative source (in fact its a liberal rag). I am shocked that this article actually got published. Must be someone at the times with a conscience. The author compares California (run by Democrats) to Texas (run by Republicans) and Texas with its low taxes is providing equal or better services to its people while California with its high taxes is providing the benefits to lawmakers and government unions while the people in the state suffer. Again--it boggles the mind why anyone would ever vote for a Democrat knowing this kind of crap is going on (unless of course you are one of the privileged few getting a windfall from the corruption):

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...0,825554.story


Quote:
The Golden State isn't worth it. Our high-benefit/high-tax model no longer works, especially compared with low-tax states like Texas.

By William Voegeli
November 1, 2009

In America's federal system, some states, such as California, offer residents a "package deal" that bundles numerous and ambitious public benefits with the high taxes needed to pay for them. Other states, such as Texas, offer packages combining modest benefits and low taxes. These alternatives, of course, define the basic argument between liberals and conservatives over what it means to get the size and scope of government right.

It's not surprising, then, that there's an intense debate over which model is more admirable and sustainable. What is surprising is the growing evidence that the low-benefit/low-tax package not only succeeds on its own terms but also according to the criteria used to defend its opposite. In other words, the superior public goods that supposedly justify the high taxes just aren't being delivered.

California and Texas are not perfect representatives of the alternative deals, but they come close. Overall, the Census Bureau's latest data show that state and local government expenditures for all purposes in 2005-06 were 46.8% higher in California than in Texas: $10,070 per person compared with $6,858. Only three states and the District of Columbia saw higher per capita government outlays than California, while those expenditures in Texas were lower than in all but seven states. California ranked 10th in overall taxes levied by state and local governments, on a per capita basis, while Texas, one of only seven states with no individual income tax, was 38th.

One way to assess how Americans feel about the different tax and benefit packages the states offer is by examining internal U.S. migration patterns. Between April 1, 2000, and June 30, 2007, an average of 3,247 more people moved out of California than into it every week, according to the Census Bureau. Over the same period, Texas had a net weekly population increase of 1,544 as a result of people moving in from other states. During these years, more generally, 16 of the 17 states with the lowest tax levels had positive "net internal migration," in the Census Bureau's language, while 14 of the 17 states with the highest taxes had negative net internal migration.

These folks pulling up stakes and driving U-Haul trucks across state lines understand a reality the defenders of the high-benefit/high-tax model must confront: All things being equal, everyone would rather pay low taxes than high ones. The high-benefit/high-tax model can work only if things are demonstrably not equal -- if the public goods purchased by the high taxes far surpass the quality, quantity and impact of those available to people who live in states with low taxes.

Today's public benefits fail that test, as urban scholar Joel Kotkin of NewGeography.com and Chapman University told the Los Angeles Times in March: "Twenty years ago, you could go to Texas, where they had very low taxes, and you would see the difference between there and California. Today, you go to Texas, the roads are no worse, the public schools are not great but are better than or equal to ours, and their universities are good. The bargain between California's government and the middle class is constantly being renegotiated to the disadvantage of the middle class."

These judgments are not based on drive-by sociology. According to a report issued earlier this year by the consulting firm McKinsey & Co., Texas students "are, on average, one to two years of learning ahead of California students of the same age," even though per-pupil expenditures on public school students are 12% higher in California. The details of the Census Bureau data show that Texas not only spends its citizens' dollars more effectively than California but emphasizes priorities that are more broadly beneficial. Per capita spending on transportation was 5.9% lower in California, and highway expenditures in particular were 9.5% lower, a discovery both plausible and infuriating to any Los Angeles commuter losing the will to live while sitting in yet another freeway traffic jam.

In what respects, then, does California "excel"? California's state and local government employees were the best compensated in America, according to the Census Bureau data for 2006. And the latest posting on the website of the California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility shows 9,223 former civil servants and educators receiving pensions worth more than $100,000 a year from California's public retirement funds. The "dues" paid by taxpayers in order to belong to Club California purchase benefits that, increasingly, are enjoyed by the staff instead of the members.

None of this happens by accident. California's interlocking directorate of government employee unions, issue activists, careerists and campaign contributors has become increasingly aggressive and adept at using rhetoric extolling public benefits for all to deliver targeted advantages to itself. As a result, the political reality of the high-benefit/high-tax model is that its public goods are, increasingly, neither public nor good. Instead, the beneficiaries are the providers of the public services, and certain favored or connected constituencies, rather than the general population.

The recession will eventually end, and California's finances will get better. Given its powerful systemic bias against efficient and effective public services, however, the question is whether the state will ever get well. California's public sector has pinned its hopes for avoiding fundamental reform on increased federal aid to replace dollars the state's fed-up taxpayers refuse to surrender. In other words, residents in the other 49 states -- the new 49ers? -- would enjoy the privilege of paying California's taxes. Their one consolation will be not having to endure its lousy public services.

If, on the other hand, America's taxpayers (and China's bond buyers) succumb to bailout fatigue, California may reach the point at which, after every alternative has been exhausted, it is forced to try governing itself competently. You wouldn't know it from putting up with California's transportation and educational systems, but there actually is a principled, plausible argument to be made for the high-benefit/high-tax model. For the sake of both California and their own political ideals, its advocates ought to be leading the charge against every excess and inefficiency that deprives taxpayers of good value for their dollars. That won't happen until they stand up to their coalition partners by breaking their Faustian political bargain with California's self-serving governmental-industrial complex.

William Voegeli is a contributing editor of the Claremont Review of Books. This article is adapted from the autumn 2009 issue of City Journal.
Interestingly, it should be you liberals who are most enraged by this because the high taxes being collected here are not going to things like education and to help the poor, it is going to further a system of corruption between Democrats and Unions so pervasive that the government unions refuse to make any concessions!

I've said all along that Democrats cannot govern efficiently because of their close ties to union (specifically government unions). What happens is taxes keep being raised, government grows bigger, salaries and benefits for government workers grow larger while middle class taxpayers income shrinks--businesses begin an exodus from the state and you are left with the fiscal disaster as we have here in California.

Its time for you liberals to face facts--Democrats can't govern effectively--the evidence of it is clear when you compare and contrast a state like California with a state like Texas--one run into the ground by Democrats while the other run by Republicans is enjoying huge economic growth (despite a huge problem with illegal immigration).

The sad thing is this kind of information will fall on deaf liberal ears--in their minds they believe higher taxes means more benefits for the poor and underprivileged when in essence what it means is less benefits!!! :rolleyes:

Show me a state where Republicans are screwing over the public by providing huge benefits to the government and the workers??? :rolleyes: What happens is they rightfully favor free enterprise and less government so that everyone (not just the government worker) can enjoy more of fruits of their labor. ]]> Civilized Debate Mulderator http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878851-california-democrats-raising-tuition-32-a.html Legalize pot http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878425-legalize-pot.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:30:51 GMT I was gonna post this elsewhere but it looked like every thread on pot has been closed. Is this a TSG conspiracy?? :eek: Stoner will no doubt want to chime in. Read and weep baby. The time has come to wake up from neanderthal thinking. ... I was gonna post this elsewhere but it looked like every thread on pot has been closed.

Is this a TSG conspiracy?? :eek:

Stoner will no doubt want to chime in.

Read and weep baby. The time has come to wake up from neanderthal thinking.


]]> Civilized Debate wacor http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878425-legalize-pot.html The Ugly Truth about Jobs http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878412-ugly-truth-about-jobs.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:34:19 GMT The Ugly Truth about Jobs (http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/111709.html). *Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke has given Americans a glimpse of the ugly truth about their future job prospects. Simply put, companies have found that they... The Ugly Truth about Jobs.

Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke has given Americans a glimpse of the ugly truth about their future job prospects. Simply put, companies have found that they can shed workers and rely on technological advances and overseas factories to operate with a lot fewer U.S. employees.

So, what's an American worker to do - move overseas and be paid a minuscule wage or innovate? Some choice. In nature it's adapt or die. Perhaps we need to find a way to be more competitive about making the "American Dream" come true again. Question is how to do that - now! Ideas anyone?

-- Tom ]]> Civilized Debate lotuseclat79 http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878412-ugly-truth-about-jobs.html putting jihad on trial http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878384-putting-jihad-trial.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:02:25 GMT steve simon presented an arguement (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/opinion/18simon.html?) today in support of the ny trial of khalid shaikh mohammed. ---Quote--- Steven Simon is a fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and the co-author... steve simon presented an arguement today in support of the ny trial of khalid shaikh mohammed.
Quote:
Steven Simon is a fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and the co-author of “The Age of Sacred Terror” and “The Next Attack.”
from the council on foreign relations
Quote:
Steven Simon is the Hasib J. Sabbagh Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. From 1994 to 1999, he served on the National Security Council in positions including Senior Director for Transnational Threats.
in his opinion piece, he makes of couple of good points, imo
this is pretty much a cut and paste :(.....but HE makes his points well enough, and i'm pretty certain there is something to discuss in all of them ;)

on the concern that mohammed might go free on a technicality
Quote:
Others complain that Mr. Mohammed might take advantage of quirks of the criminal justice system and go free. That’s highly unlikely. First, he has already confessed to the crime; and, given the zero acquittal rate for terrorists in New York previously, any anxiety about a “not guilty” verdict seems unwarranted.
on the argument that the material that will be revealed at trial is too sensitive to american security
Quote:
John Yoo, a former Bush administration lawyer, argues that the trial would be an “intelligence bonanza” for our enemies. Also unlikely. Our prosecutors are certain that there is enough unclassified evidence to make their case. Moreover, the most prized intelligence is recent, specific and actionable. Al Qaeda today is most concerned with discovering when and where the next drone missile attack will take place in Pakistan, information not likely to be disclosed during a trial about a conspiracy hatched more than a decade ago.
on the argument that the trial will give mohammed a "platform for recruiting militants"
Quote:
Which brings us to the idea that allowing Mr. Mohammed to take the stand will give him a soapbox. The truth is, if the trial provides a propaganda platform for anybody, it will be for our side.....
......The Nuremberg trials were a classic case. And nothing more effectively alerted the world to the danger of genocide than Israel’s prosecution in 1961 of Adolf Eichmann, the bureaucrat who engineered the Holocaust.....highlighting the transparency in our judicial process would strengthen America’s reputation just as cracks are beginning to appear in the jihadist base. A growing number of radical Muslim clerics and theoreticians have reversed course in recent years.

For example, three of Saudi Arabia’s most influential radical clerics — Nasir bin Hamad al-Fahd, Ali al-Khudair and Ahmed al-Khalidi (once described by Osama bin Laden as “our most prominent supporter”) — have disowned Mr. bin Laden. Another, Salman al-Awda, has excoriated him, asking, “How many innocents have you killed?”

Abu Basir al-Tartusi, an influential Jordan-born cleric living in London, now uses the Islamic concept of “covenant” between Muslims and their hosts to condemn jihadist bombings in Britain. In Qatar, the high-profile televangelist Yusuf al-Qaradhawi has advanced a “jurisprudence of jihad” that forbids the killing of most civilians. And from his prison cell in Egypt, Sayyed Imam al-Sharif — the founder of the Egyptian insurgent group that produced Osama bin Laden’s deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri — has declared that the jihad against the West must be abandoned.
he goes on to point out that these changes in attitude don't go far enough in the eyes of many in the west....but suggests that they support his contention that they are "changing opinion" in the muslim world....the pakistani people, for example, have shown signs of actively resisting taliban manipulation and violence...he generalizes a few others

i like his closing too...speaks to me clearlly about what this struggle is really all about
Quote:
But a judgment in New York, where the greatest suffering was inflicted, will remind us both of the narrow viciousness of the terrorists’ cause and of the enduring strength of our own values.
]]> Civilized Debate iltos http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878384-putting-jihad-trial.html Government In Action http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878332-government-action.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:29:28 GMT This is one of the root problems with our government. Here is an excert from the article:

He's a champion of "earmarks" - pet project spending that critics also call "pork." He's helped bring home to West Virginia $326 million for 2008 alone, according to Citizens Against Government Waste.

I don't care if they are Democrats or Republicans they need to move on after a given length of time.
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]]> Civilized Debate Deke40 http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878332-government-action.html AMD Athlon 1.6 GHz or Intel Celeron 2.2 Ghz? http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878009-amd-athlon-1-6-ghz.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:42:33 GMT Which one would perform better for light 3D modeling , and After Effects Editing? I hear Athlon is better but at 2.2 Ghz. So should I get Laptop A: * Processor... Which one would perform better for light 3D modeling , and After Effects Editing?

I hear Athlon is better but at 2.2 Ghz.

So should I get Laptop A:
Or laptop B:
These two are the best i can do at the moment, money is tight and I need something soon.:confused: Hard drives on both machines are okay.

]]> Civilized Debate gabby64 http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/878009-amd-athlon-1-6-ghz.html Rationing health care http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/877947-rationing-health-care.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:36:59 GMT So much for the promise not to ration health care: http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE5AF5OS20091116 So much for the promise not to ration health care: http://www.reuters.com/article/healt...5AF5OS20091116 ]]> Civilized Debate JohnWill http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/877947-rationing-health-care.html Republican Survey http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/877885-republican-survey.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:11:29 GMT I received this in the mail today and thought the forum might be interested in reading it. 2009 Obama Agenda Survey. Some interesting questions. Nothing about religion/Islam, though. Image:... I received this in the mail today and thought the forum might be interested in reading it.
2009 Obama Agenda Survey.

Some interesting questions.
Nothing about religion/Islam, though.




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]]> Civilized Debate Stoner http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/877885-republican-survey.html <![CDATA[Eggy's "Articles of Note" #3]]> http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/877782-eggys-articles-note-3-a.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:08:56 GMT a continuation of this thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by eggplant43
A place to post articles that interest you, but don't really fit into any of the existing threads. Pick any topic you like. As long as you enjoyed the article, and feel it is worth sharing with others. :)
be mindful of the rules re: copyright...and that this thread is not intended to just be a news feed....

the highlights of an article, with a comment or two that reflect your opinion on the subject matter, serve discussion here.
there is nothing "noteworthy" in a simple cut and paste....it is your comments that give it meaning in this forum.
articles posted without comment can be reported and removed.
remember to include a link to your source.

carry on :) ]]> Civilized Debate iltos http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/877782-eggys-articles-note-3-a.html the KKK http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/876866-kkk.html Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:22:51 GMT this is going to be a relatively short rant, as one, I am still getting over bronchitis, and as such don't have that much energy to devote to this, and two, am just plumb tuckered out.

Saw a television show the other night about the KKK that described it as a terrorist group. I do not agree with this, and would appreciate the input on this.

I've gone so far as to email one of the 'grand wizards' of a certain chapter and ask to a formal debate to discuss his views versus mine; I stress 'formal' debate as then the rules of a proper debate apply. He jumps me, I can call ad hominem and refuse to answer until my point is answered.

Obviously this will not be carried out on these forums.

But, in a way, I hope he responds. My views and his are diametrically opposed in nearly every way, with one exception, that being the freedom of speech in the COTUSA. Other than that, IMO, he's vile. Simply vile. No other words to describe him.

But I digress. One of the questions I posed to him was whether or not he viewed his organization as a terrorist organization. I know his answer will be no. My answer is no, yet I can see why they would be labeled as such; terrorists act through, by definition, forcing change through terror in the populace, and the KKK does little except embrace that value.

Burning crosses, churches, religious and racial discrimination, violent actions against those who do not adhere to their code of ethics. So I can clearly see why they would be labeled a terrorist organization, but for reasons I myself am not sure of yet, I don't see them as that. Maybe it's because they operate primarily on their own soil, and pretty much on tenets of a madman from 70 years ago, but I just don't see them as a terrorist organization.

Maybe it's that they don't operate on the scale of, say, Spain's ETA. If the KKK blew up the Hoover dam, well, that would probably escalate them on the terrorist scale in my own personal book.

But anyhow, as usual, I digress. Curious as to see your input on whether or not they are a terrorist group or not, and why or why not.


and yes, I promise to keep everyone up to date on whether or not I get a response.

Me? I ain't holding my breath. :)


v ]]> Civilized Debate valis http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/876866-kkk.html Remembering the victims of Communism http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/876172-remembering-victims-communism.html Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:10:26 GMT Exceptional 4 minute video documentary regarding the horrific toll of Communism.


So soon people forget. :( :down: ]]> Civilized Debate LANMaster http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/876172-remembering-victims-communism.html The Ascent of Man http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/876073-ascent-man.html Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:10:24 GMT
Quote:
A Marxist might contend that during Marx's time the goods manufactured were priced at a high level which only the capitalists could afford. Such an assertion would be factually wrong, however; describing the results of the same Industrial Revolution in which Marx perceived increasing poverty leading to starvation, Jacob Bronowski writes:

Quote:
"The new inventions were for everyday use. The canals were arteries of communication: they were not made to carry pleasure boats, but barges. And the barges were not made to carry luxuries, but pots and pans and bales of cloth, boxes of ribbon, and all the common things that people buy by the pennyworth." "It is comic to think that cotton underwear and soap could work a transformation in the lives of the poor. Yet these simple things—coal in an iron range, glass in the windows, a choice of food—were a wonderful rise in the standard of life and health…"
Of course, that standard has kept rising, in the Capitalist and semi-Capitalist countries, through the present, with it's previously undreamed-of standard of living for everyone, including of course the working class.

In another example of historic, political, economic, and logical self-contradiction, Marx writes that, "National differences and antagonisms between peoples are daily more and more vanishing, owing to… freedom of commerce…" Then, writing of end of "exploitation" to be brought about by the introduction of Communism, Marx writes that, "In proportion as the antagonism between classes within the nation vanishes, the hostility between one nation to another will come to an end." Again, in logic, one is led to ask: if freedom of commerce leads to harmony among nations, why would the opposite policy, the abolition of freedom of commerce, now solve the already solved, now nonexistent problem of international antagonisms, rather than, logically, lead to the opposite result? To understand why economic freedom historically led to harmony among nations, and what effect the abolition of economic freedom would cause (and, in fact, later did cause) among nations, however, requires an analysis which Marx wisely avoids in the Manifesto.
Liberals will never understand.
Bronowski was just another egotistical, liberal twit who, when forced to confront the fact that he was utterly wrong about how prosperity benefits the poor FAR, FAR more than Marxist, Socialism, carries on picking dandilions, skipping through the field, sated by his own delusional, envious, self-loathing.

I am not surprised that xico uses one of his quotes in his signature. How appropriate. ]]> Civilized Debate LANMaster http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/876073-ascent-man.html <![CDATA[Isn't The First Amendment Great!]]> http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/875548-isnt-first-amendment-great.html Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:51:45 GMT This guy doesn't realize the people he is condeming are the ones defending his right to run his mouth off.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572998,00.html
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]]> Civilized Debate Deke40 http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/875548-isnt-first-amendment-great.html Jeff Dunham - the PC crowd attacks are getting pitiful http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/874717-jeff-dunham-pc-crowd-attacks.html Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:33:27 GMT I am not a rabid Jeff Dunham fan but I find much of his stuff very funny and entertaining. Now I read a bit where some clown thinks Dunham needs to be a nicer person and introduce some different characters so he can be more of a healer. Good... I am not a rabid Jeff Dunham fan but I find much of his stuff very funny and entertaining. Now I read a bit where some clown thinks Dunham needs to be a nicer person and introduce some different characters so he can be more of a healer.

Good grief this PC crap is getting out of hand. One of the funnies shows which I never liked but I was clearly in the minority was All in the Family. There is no way the PC crowd would ever allow that show to start today and this kind of crap does far more to continue our differences than to mend them

Boo hiss for this nonsense. It is called humor you flippin moron PC idiots.


http://insidetv.aol.com/2009/11/03/everybody-loves-jeff-dunham-or-do-they/?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Finsidetv.aol.com%2F2009%2F11%2F03%2F everybody-loves-jeff-dunham-or-do-they%2F
Quote:
Everybody loves Jeff Dunham, or do they?..................

In his act, five of the seven puppets in his cast of characters are based on racial or cultural stereotypes (José, the jalepeño pepper; Sweet Daddy Dee, the jive-talking pimp; Bubba J, the beer-guzzling redneck), and although Dunham claims he skewers everyone equally, the skewering doesn't seem intended to bridge racial and cultrual divides. In fact, it seems to cement, if not widen, them. Take skeletal Achmed, the Dead Terrorist, whom Dunham claims is not offensive to Muslims in the least (though South Africans disagree). During the act it's revealed that because the dummy has a "Made in China" stamp, Achmed doesn't even think he's Muslim. But one only needs to get to the "72 virgins" joke in Dunham's Achmed bit before it's hard to deny that he's indeed Muslim -- oh, and homophobic, too!
]]> Civilized Debate wacor http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/874717-jeff-dunham-pc-crowd-attacks.html <![CDATA["I woke up this morning feeling like Michelle Obama......]]> http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/874488-i-woke-up-morning-feeling.html Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:16:42 GMT For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my state, New Jersey, because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback :p Congratulations to Chris Christie :up: I pray he governs as someone who loves New Jersey and not like a... For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my state, New Jersey, because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback :p

Congratulations to Chris Christie :up: I pray he governs as someone who loves New Jersey and not like a politician. :)

and he didn't even need Obama's robo calls :rolleyes:

“Hi this is President Obama, I want to apologize for disturbing you, but there’s an important election in New Jersey this coming Tuesday. Last year we started the movement for change. Now we need to keep it going.That's why I'm asking you to get behind Governor Jon Corzine. (isn't he the incumbent :confused: where's the change in that :confused:)Together we can fix our schools, improve health care, turn around the economy so it works for all Americans. So please get out to vote on Tuesday. And vote for my friend and your governor Jon Corzine. Thanks for listening."

guess being B.O.'s friend isn't all that after all ;) ]]> Civilized Debate hannab http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/874488-i-woke-up-morning-feeling.html Obama Appoints 2 Devout Muslims To Homeland Security Posts http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/874313-obama-appoints-2-devout-muslims.html Wed, 04 Nov 2009 06:06:09 GMT Obama and Appoint Devout Muslim to Homeland Security Post Arif Alikhan as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development Source for announcement: ---Quote--- The Islamic loving Obama...

Obama and Appoint Devout Muslim to Homeland Security Post
Arif Alikhan as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development
Source for announcement:

Quote:
The Islamic loving Obama has appointed Arif Alikhan a devout Sunni Muslim to assistant secretary for the Office of Policy Department of Homeland Security. Mr. Alikhan was instrumental in taking down the LA Police Department's plan to monitor it's Muslim community.
Quote:
Alikhan is affiliated with MPAC, the "Muslim Public Affairs Council".



Quote:
From its inception, MPAC presented itself as more inclusive, and more open to peaceful coexistence with Jews and Christians, than other Arab and Muslim groups, and sought to make Americans comfortable with Islam by showing how much the religion embraced core American values.

However, looking deeper into this group:

MPAC's Senior Advisor, Maher Hathout, who has close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and espouses the radical brand of Islam known as Wahhabism, was invited to address the Democratic Convention in Los Angeles in 2000.


Quote:
MPAC's centrist public image unraveled after the September 2000 launching of the Second Palestinian Intifada, when the Council severed its ties to the Jewish community and issued one-sided condemnations of Israel's response to the Arab violence.

This group actively opposed Bush's military incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as his "excesses" in the war on terror. In February 2003, MPAC joined the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the American Muslim Council, and the American Muslim Alliance in forming a coalition to repeal and amend the Patriot Act, which these organizations depicted as an assault on the civil liberties of Americans, particularly Muslims.

Quote:
MPAC claims that Islam is a religion of peace and moderation, and contends that Muslim extremists are no more numerous or dangerous than fundamentalists in any other faith.


In a 1999 position paper, MPAC justified Hezbollah's deadly 1983 bombing of the American Marine barracks in Lebanon as a "military operation" rather than a terrorist attack. 1983 Beirutbarracks bombing, which killed 299 servicemen, including 220 U.S. Marines. As Maher Hathout puts it: "Hezbollah is fighting for freedom, an organized army, limiting its operations against military people, this is a legitimate target against occupation. … this is legitimate, this is an American value -- freedom and liberty."
Quote:

http://www.adc.org/index.php?id=3458
The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) is proud to announce that earlier today at a ceremony held in Albuquerque, New Mexico, DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano swore-in ADC National Executive Director Kareem Shora as a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council (HSAC).

Quote:

Aaron Klein, wrote about this at wnd
Napolitano adds adviser with ties to terror backers
Swears in leader of Arab group that hailed jihadists as 'heroes'
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano swore in to her official advisory council the head of an Arab American organization whose officials have labeled deadly anti-U.S. jihadists as "heroes" and opposed referring to Hamas as a terrorist organization.

Quote:
The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, or ADC, also has close ties to anti-Israel professor Rashid Khalidi, whose association with President Obama – first exposed by WND – stirred controversy during last year's presidential campaign.

The ADC takes an openly anti-Israel line.


Quote:
The ADC also leads the opposition to domestic anti-terrorism measures taken after the 9-11 attacks, such as watch lists, background check delays for visas and an initiative meant to more comprehensively screen visitors from select < style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Mideast countries or specific individuals labeled as possible national security threats.
Quote:
In 1994, during one of the main peaks of Hamas suicide bombings against Israeli civilians, then-ADC President Hamzi Moghrabi said, "I will not call [Hamas] a terrorist organization. I mean, I know many people in Hamas. They are very respectable. … I don't believe Hamas, as an organization, is a violent organization."




Quote:
When Israel released Hezbollah prisoners in early 2004, Imad Hamad, ADC's Midwest Regional Director, openly celebrated the freedom of "the heroes."
Quote:
Besides its deadly terrorism against Israel, Hezbollah distinguishes itself as second only to al-Qaida among terror groups responsib le for killing the most Americans. It's responsible for such deadly attacks as the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing, which killed 299 servicemen, including 220 U.S. Marines.

ADC linked to Khalidi

The ADC also has collaborated on numerous projects with the Arab American Action Network, or AAAN, an organization founded by Khalidi's wife Mona, and which WND first reported received start-up funds from a nonprofit, the Woods Fund, on which Obama served as a paid director.


Quote:
The AAAN, headquartered in the heart of Chicago's Palestinian immigrant community, worked on projects sup porting open boarders and education for illegal aliens. Speakers at AAAN dinners and events routinely have taken an anti-Isra el line. The organization co-sponsored anti-Israel projects and exhibits.


Quote:
ADC opposes anti-terrorism screening
According to the ADC charter, the organization seeks to "empower Arab Americans; defend the civil rights of all people of Arab heritage in the U.S.; pr omote civic participation; and encourage a balanced U.S.foreign policy in the Middle East."

Quote:
The organization has actively lobbied against the Patriot Act and was reportedly instrumental i n scaling back some of the restrictions of the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System program, or NSEERS. Shora was personally involved in those efforts.



Quote:
Last week, Napolitano swore in Damascus-born Kareem Shora, the ADC's national executive director, to a position on the Homeland Security Advisory Council, an outside-the-department group of national security experts that advises the secretary. Shora is the first Arab rights advocate on the panel.


Quote:
At the ceremony in Albequrque, Shora reportedly recounted how he watched with his immigrant father Obama's address last week to the Muslim world. Shora said his father cried when he heard Obama's message of reconciliation.
Source:
Quote:
http://www.theodoresworld.net/


source


----------------------------------------------------------------------

There it is with links supplied in the article to back up the claims. To many its not really news but just a reminder. The lefts just seem to blow off information like this. The rights realize the lefts resort to 4th grade tactics while dealing with matters such as this. It started with the doubts of the mans integrity before the election,the lefts support the Obama the underdog totally disregarding any red flags and dismissing these much in the fashion that any euphoric liberal would....The stimulus package..the same..the appointing of crooks in cabinet...has he appointed anyone who is right for any job? Every major pick has red flags.

Anyway this article deals with national security and the obvious strong effort by Obama to get Muslims into the last place they need to be..There is also discussion of Obama being a paid director of an organization that is also of concern.

Am I the only one that feels any of this is of any significance?
Why is he jeopardizing our country?....It is one red flag after another...How many do we need?

Sure Bush had some dealings with one,but now that we unfold what is going on it appears as if the matter is getting worse as they have higher appointments.....Was Bush also bowing to the Muslims?but at a lesser degree....What is really going on?


 ]]> Civilized Debate aka Brett http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/874313-obama-appoints-2-devout-muslims.html Thoughts? http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/873987-thoughts.html Tue, 03 Nov 2009 03:28:51 GMT
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckphilli (Post 7011651)
So just out of curiosity... read this: http://blog.al.com/press-register-sp...ight_song.html

Now, I'm very proud that change has been instigated...but...umm...what about the mascot?

Seems a little strange to me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iltos (Post 7011712)
hmmm....first thing that popped in my mind was:
"what? is ole miss an all white football team?.....they've got no black players?"
then
"do they stop playing their hearts out when fans start chanting?"

who's making an issue out of this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckphilli (Post 7011724)
The school is making an issue out of it...and well, it should be...IMO. My issue is that they stop at the chant "the south will rise again". This phrase and "rebel" in Ole' Miss. context are reminders of an ugly past and quite offensive to some, including me.

We're not talking outlawing and limiting freedom of speech...but neither has any business at a public university.

Now, if they change the mascot and keep "rebel" that may be a good compromise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iltos (Post 7011748)
at the risk of turning a perfectly sane thread into a candidate for CD :eek:
i'm not gettin it.....yes, it was an ugly past....but if we keep bringing it up and trying to find some balance that both includes it and excludes it, all it means is that we'll never get past it.

if there's some black kids at that school that take issue with the chant, then i'll listen...'til then, my money is on old white administrators worried about "image" and how it effects recruitment and endowments
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckphilli (Post 7011755)
Fair enough my friend, last words from me on this...

It is about the image to me. History has a place and it's in the history books; or the net these days. Constant reminders are just unnecessary and I think that's what the administration is trying to stop. And it isn't always just the black players that have a problem...k, sorry, I'll stop.:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iltos (Post 7011777)
maybe they should "rebrand" themselves
call themselves "new miss" ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacor (Post 7011782)
Next thing you know they will remove any reference to the native indians. Oh wait. Eastern Michigan did that a few years ago. Sheesh this PC world is a getting out of hand. If the Washington Redskins keep going down the tubes on par with the Lions it won't take long and there will be a groundswell to rename them.

sorry to hijack but I am with Iltos on this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckphilli (Post 7011794)
It's not a "PC" issue Bill and you know that.
]]> Civilized Debate ckphilli http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/873987-thoughts.html <![CDATA[What's your opinion?]]> http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/873989-whats-your-opinion.html Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:20:18 GMT So just out of curiosity... read this: http://blog.al.com/press-register-sp...ight_song.html

Now, I'm very proud that change has been instigated...but...umm...what about the mascot?

Seems a little strange to me... ]]> Civilized Debate ckphilli http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/873989-whats-your-opinion.html The Growing Rift Between Libertarians and Republicans http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/873002-growing-rift-between-libertarians-republicans.html Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:25:50 GMT The Growing Rift Between Libertarians and Republicans (http://progressivenation.us/2009/10/28/the-growing-rift-between-libertarians-and-republicans/). ---Quote--- Although a tem*po*rary truce between Lib*er*tar*i*ans and Repub*li*cans has been... The Growing Rift Between Libertarians and Republicans.

Quote:
Although a tem*po*rary truce between Lib*er*tar*i*ans and Repub*li*cans has been in effect for the Tea Par*ties, divi*sions over legal*iz*ing mar*i*juana, domes*tic espi*onage, abor*tion, tor*ture, gay mar*riage, the sep*a*ra*tion of church/state, immi*gra*tion, and de-militarization are start*ing to take a toll. The schism between Lib*er*tar*i*ans and Repub*li*cans is widening.
Looks like a comprehensive view from the Progressive POV.

-- Tom ]]> Civilized Debate lotuseclat79 http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/873002-growing-rift-between-libertarians-republicans.html musika and thou http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/872848-musika-thou.html Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:49:08 GMT well, it's about that time again. I've not been on a good rant in several months, and the cat is beginning to look nervous, so I reckon I should probably pony up something good.

Reckon I'll choose music. I choose this because a; I'm an excellent music critic (everything I like is cool, everything else sucks), and b; I started the damn thread.

Was channel surfing last night after the Yanks got smoked by the Phillies, and came across VH1 classic playing Queens fantabulous show at Wembley in '83. Wished I could have been there; IMO, Freddie Mercury is the definitive front man for ALL of music, and yes, that does include Laurence Welk and his bubbles.

Unfortunately, I was unable to attend that show, as I was attending another seminal show, with another extraordinarily capable frontman (not in Mercury's class, however; that class consists of one); that concert being U2 at Red Rocks when they filmed 'Under A Blood Red Sky'. To this day, that remains the best concert I've ever seen, and I've seen a good sized pile of them.

I have not seen the Stones, and I will never see the Stones. The reason for this is simple; right now, the only reason they are cool is that they are an integral part of the boomer populace, and that populace still wants to think that they can rock as hard as ever, providing that the show isn't too loud and they get home at a reasonable hour. Say around 8.

But I do give it up for the Stones, for they were THE band that brought blues (as in the 'song by the colored folk' blues) into the mainstream to stay. Without the Stones, I cannot even begin to fathom where music would be today. The Clash is one of my very favorite bands, and I'd say that 'London Calling' is one of the most influential albums ever made, but had the Stones not paved the way with their bluesy 'Exile on Main Street', I honestly don't think that album (London Calling, that is), would ever have been made.

A year or so ago, a few of us pundits here at TSG decided that we were going to sit down and submit lists of our top 100 bands. I would then weight them in popularity in a spreadsheet with all of our picks, and drop the bottom 25, and do it again. Repeat until you got down to 10, and then we were going to make a poll and put those 10 bands up there and say 'we've narrowed it down to these top 10 bands, you guys vote on who's the best'. Reason it never came to fruition was very, very simple. One of the members realized that there were no black blues bands on there, and without that, you don't have rock and roll today. No Zep, no AC/DC, no Def Lep, and certainly no Pearl Jam or Social D or even Johnny Cash and Waylon Jennings. Those guys would not have been there had it not been for the original players of the blues, and we realized that our 'experiment' was flawed at it's very foundation, and tanked it.

This is not to say that we didn't know about the impact the early blues players had; of course not. We just didn't have as many Blind Lemon Jefferson albums as we did, say, Jefferson Airplane albums. And so, being the humans that we are, we looked into our collections and our memories of concerts that moved us, and chose from there. And even though none of us were really old enough to have lived through the Golden Age of Blues, we still knew about Muddy Waters and Bo Diddley. Hell, I named my cat Bo, and it wasn't after Jackson.

Where I'm going with this, I dunno. Just needed a rant. After watching that Queen concert last night, I'm yet again utterly depressed with the path that music has taken. I know, I know; the stuff we loved in our prime is the stuff we'll stick to forever, but I still valiantly attempt to listen to the radio on occasion, and I'll hear the new, raw, alternative station playing a song older than the new Tom Petty hit on the classic rock station, and that strikes me as silly. An alternative station that touts itself on the 'new rock label' playing Nirvana from 18 years ago, and the classic rock station playing Tom Petty from 10 years ago. Irony.

As an interesting aside, out of the four current 'major' radio venues (classic rock, alternative, heavy metal, and retro), I've only heard one band on all 4 stations; U2. Heard Boston on 3 of them, but only U2 on all four. AND we went to see Bono and crew a couple weeks ago; band called Muse opened up for them, and they most definitely gave me hope for the future of music.

So I dunno; chances are high that I merely used to be with it, and now what 'it' is is unknown and scary to me, but I'm going to dig my heels in here; nothing has really moved me, with the exception of quite literally a handful of bands (I'll give you the examples if you want) since about 1990 or so.

So what YOUR input? Who do YOU see as the 'most influential' band out there? That's always a toughie to answer. The cop out answer is the Beatles, of course; again, no blues, no Beatles. Or at least a significantly different version of them. Who's the best front man? Do the Stones get enough street cred for being the boys who tied blues to rock and roll? (no, even though I detest them.) Where does Dire Straits fit into all this? Did you know Mark Knopfler has a dino named after him? More imporantaly, do you care?

What is country and western music? My answer to that is simple; Hank Williams is, and Hank Williams Jr ain't. And before you go off about me not knowing my music, I grew up on Woody Guthrie, Flatt and Scruggs, and Willie and the boys.

An album a lot of people consistently overlook is Pet Sounds, by Brian Wilson. I guess it was performed by the Beach Boys, but it most definitely was written by Master Wilson, with a specific aim in mind; the best pop album ever.

And in my mind, he hit it. After all, the two dudes who wrote what is usually acclaimed as the greatest pop album of all time, Lennon and McCartney, are both on record stating that had there not been a Pet Sounds, there would not have been a Sgt. Pepper. If they say it's better, I'm going to have to agree with them.

Slack, I know you're going to pound me for that one. :) ]]> Civilized Debate valis http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/872848-musika-thou.html Flu vaccines in canada http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/872693-flu-vaccines-canada.html Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:49:33 GMT dr cass ingram is on radio-www.thepowerhour.com saying that the flu vaccine is suspended in Canada the seasonal one and usa media doesnt report this:down: dr cass ingram is on radio-www.thepowerhour.com saying that the flu vaccine is suspended in Canada the seasonal one and usa media doesnt report this:down: ]]> Civilized Debate steppenwolf http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/872693-flu-vaccines-canada.html Your tax cash in action (with pics!) http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/872461-your-tax-cash-action-pics.html Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:51:28 GMT The governor here in NC initiated a huge pork project about 15 years ago, and called it Global Trans Park (Global Trans PORK (http://www.ncgtp.com/)) at Kinston (pop. 35k?) NC Jetport, with the impetus being to bring in global commercial interest. ... The governor here in NC initiated a huge pork project about 15 years ago, and called it Global Trans Park (Global Trans PORK) at Kinston (pop. 35k?) NC Jetport, with the impetus being to bring in global commercial interest.

To date, I think there are no business tenants - global or local.

So it was a waste of 10's of millions of tax dollars - maybe close to $100 million+; I'm not sure.

He managed somehow to get an annual budget/tax commitment from the Fed, in addition to state and local budget allotments.

For years, I've seen government aircraft doing touch n go's at this airport. What's behind this?

Somewhere in the fine print, I imagine that the GTP 'charter' says that in order for the Fed to continue funding operations [sic], there has to be x amount of air traffic, BUT, it obviously does NOT have to be related to the conduct of commerce (or lack thereof). Local business operations wouldn't justify the Fed's annual allotment.

So almost every weekday, you can see the aircraft going round, and round, and round - literally, round and round the airport. Burning government fuel, so more tax cash can come in.

Today, it was the Coast Guard jet (Gulfstream IV?), in from Elizabeth City NC, or maybe Wilmington NC. More often, the CG sends their Lockheed C-130.

Also doing cycles was a USAF C130. This one, along with a KC-707 USAF refueler from SJAFB Goldsboro NC, and an ANG C130, also SJAFB, are the most common visitors (daily).

Every government agency that does air comes through, including US Forest Service a DC-3, a Marine Osprey, and even I believe the CIA with a completely unmarked C-123. There's some military facility on the northwest side of the airport, not visible from ANY road, and with images blocked out from google earth. Gitmo prisoners?

I couldn't list all the aircraft. Here's a few pics from todays visitors. Enjoy - you're paying for it!








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]]> Civilized Debate TRS-80 vet http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/872461-your-tax-cash-action-pics.html The press-tail wagging the adminstration dog??? http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/872259-press-tail-wagging-adminstration-dog.html Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:18:22 GMT O'Bama is 're-thinking' troop strategy for Afghanistan. What DOES that mean, anyway?

No matter; what it means to the media machine is 'Get it over with/Give us a story in the process'. And how do we know this? How many times today and yesterday did you hear a [meaningless] buzzword, that was used in describing a [futile] troop campaign in Iraq about 18 months or ago? We're referring to 'surge'. A gimmick buzzword, that went away after 3 or 4 months.

Until yesterday. Or maybe a day or 2 before - I don't know. But the media is conducting a blitz, and it sure sounds like they're sending some message to the admin's think tanks.

In the first half of tonight's college football game, the local broadcaster has used the word twice, describing the defensive line's play.

Earlier, the word was used on network news to describe the rising price of gas of late.

This morning, the word was used on The Weather Channel, describing a moisture-laden low pressure system, moving through the southeast.

And the Raleigh traffic report included the word in describing morning rush hour traffic on I-40 beltline.

Who started (resurrected) this? What are you trying to say here? And HOW did this garbage manage to filter all the way down to LOCAL media outlets in 2 days??? ]]> Civilized Debate TRS-80 vet http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/872259-press-tail-wagging-adminstration-dog.html Sounds Familiar http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/871816-sounds-familiar.html Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:08:35 GMT This clip is over 60 years old but sure could apply to our present situation. http://nationaljuggernaut.blogspot.com/2009/09/this-cartoon-seemed-far-fetched-in-1948.html This clip is over 60 years old but sure could apply to our present situation.

http://nationaljuggernaut.blogspot.c...d-in-1948.html ]]> Civilized Debate Deke40 http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/871816-sounds-familiar.html Prominent California Democrat tells Democrats they are Union Puppets!!! http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/871373-prominent-california-democrat-tells-democrats.html Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:14:41 GMT This is absolutely incredible to me that a prominent California Democrat (Bill Lockyer) has finally said what the media is scared to death to say and what I and few other people here in California (and other states) realize--that the corruption that... This is absolutely incredible to me that a prominent California Democrat (Bill Lockyer) has finally said what the media is scared to death to say and what I and few other people here in California (and other states) realize--that the corruption that exists between unions and Democrats is so bad that it is now reached the point where California will go bankrupt because Democrats (who run the state) cannot reform the exhorbitant pension benefits that government unions have put in place. You have really go to listen to Lockyer addressing the California Legislature a few days ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWOoq...ayer_embedded#

Quote:
It’s impossible for this legislature to reform the pension system, and if we don’t, we bankrupt the state. And I don’t think anybody can do it here, because of who elected you. … You’re just captive of the current environment — I don’t see any way out!
When he says "because of who elected you" he of course is not talking about the people, he is talking about the unions--with 99% of their huge political donations going to Democrats (and that's tax payer money by the way), they are afraid to do what they know is the only way to save California--reform the pensions.

I started another thread to talk about the pension plans (many government employees get 90% of their last three years salaries and can retire at age 50--many collect the pension while then working at a second job--many drawing 6 figure pensions while working on building a second pension--its absolutely disgusting!!!).

What will happen is that the Democrats will end up cutting needed and important state and local benefits and services--they will take money away from people who really need it--cut programs for public assistance and helping the poor and on an on an on--its the only thing they can cut if they don't reform the pensions which account a mammoth part of the deficit.

Anyway--if you are a Democrat in California, or you vote for Democrats, you have on your conscience the bankrupting of the state--you have on your conscience the suffering of millions of taxpayers (many struggling families, single mothers, etc,) who are forced to pay for this disgusting corrupt system with exhorbitant taxes where unions get Democrats elected with taxpayer money then force these Democrats to increase taxes to get more money to use to get more Democrats elected and to get even more lavish benefits for them and their members. You have on your conscience the cutting of many programs in this state that actually benefit impoverished and needy families.

Anyone here who can with a straight face can claim the same kind of corruption exists with Republicans you are living in an *&^%* fantasy land. Donations to Democrats and Republicans by private companies is close to equal--with a small edge to Republicans. And even if the Republicans are totally corrupt, they are still powerless to affect the taxpayer in any meaningful way except LESS TAXES becaue the corporations and businesses are sources of tax revenue not users of tax revenuse like the governments.

This is a disgusting system that has bankrupted a once economically powerful state. And its not just this state--its others controlled by Democrats as well (New York and New Jersey and Michigan (Detroit primaily) are prominent examples) where the corruption between state legislators and unions is so grievous the tax burdens on taxpayers are becoming unsustainable.

You Democrats can rationalize this any way you want but no Republican run state has this kind of corruption--go to places like Texas and Florida and you see no state income taxes and much lower taxes and much better run states fiscally--that's because the unions don't have controls of the states. Say what you want about Bush, but what is destroying the economies of the states (and thus affecting the national economy) is the corruption that exists between unions and Democrats--the fact that government unions are running the states, not the people.

And yet this will stuff will not see the light of day in the mainstream media--stupid voters in California and other states will continue to elect Democrats, who will continue to bankrupt the states with payoffs to state and local government unions and their members--its disgusting!! :mad: ]]> Civilized Debate Mulderator http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/871373-prominent-california-democrat-tells-democrats.html No Need To Apologize http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/871277-no-need-apologize.html Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:45:25 GMT At a time when our president and other politicians apologize for our country`s prior actions, here`s a refresher on how some of our former patriots handled negative comments about our country...





JFK'S Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, was in France in the early 60's when DeGaule decided to pull out of NATO. DeGaule said he wanted all US military out of France as soon as possible.

Rusk responded "does that include those who are buried here?

DeGuale did not respond.


You could have heard a pin drop.





When in England , at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying, 'Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return.'


You could have heard a pin drop.






There was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American. During a break, one of the French engineers came back into the room saying 'Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims. What does he intended to do, bomb them?'

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly: "Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck. We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?"


You could have heard a pin drop.





A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the U.S. , English, Canadian, Australian and French Navies.

At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of Officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, Americans learn only English. He then asked, 'Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?'

Without hesitating, the American Admiral replied, 'Maybe it's because the Brit's, Canadians, Aussie's and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to speak German.'


You could have heard a pin drop.






AND THIS STORY FITS RIGHT IN WITH THE ABOVE...

Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane. At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on.

"You have been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically.

Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously.

"Then you should know enough to have your passport ready."

The American said, 'The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it."

"Impossible. Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France!"

The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained, ''Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find a single Frenchmen to show a passport to."


You could have heard a pin drop. ]]> Civilized Debate JohnWill http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/871277-no-need-apologize.html U.S. report says China engages in cyber warfare http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/870844-u-s-report-says-china.html Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:38:45 GMT U.S. report says China engages in cyber warfare (http://www.examiner.com/x-15615-Asia-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m10d22-US-report-says-China-engages-in-cyber-warfare). *The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission today released a new... U.S. report says China engages in cyber warfare.

The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission today released a new report that it says details efforts by the Chinese government to engage in cyber warfare and espionage.

Commission's PDF Report: here.

From a security point-of-view - I have no doubt that China has been behind some of the perpetual attacks seen in the U.S, that and China buying up our debt means that they have both the motivation to knock us down a few notches in the world power order, and the motivation to not see us fail - i.e. to repay the debt. A two-headed sword, indeed!

Obama's visit in November should be interesting, eh?

-- Tom ]]> Civilized Debate lotuseclat79 http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-debate/870844-u-s-report-says-china.html