[Compiler]

Hmmm odd. That NEW compaq is no longer on the website. I think they might have put it up there a bit too early. That would be the one to get... So on the Newer Compaq, it said 4GB? Strange since both the HP/Compaqs are using the same chipset board. I wonder if they error on the stats or HP removed 2 memory slots (instead of 4) to artificially degrade the Compaq.

Okay, went to the official site: http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh...ABA&catLevel=2

They made it 4GB max on purpose. And yep, it only has 2 memory slots (Saved HPaq 15 cents) But Windows7 should run pretty good with 4GB (and better than Vista) and vista should have at least 3GB for starters, but I worked on a 1.5GB which was usable.

The next HP model up has a Core2Duo E7500 for about $530. Thats not bad, but its $160 more for the option to upgrade beyond 4GB. That system has 4sticks installed, so you'd have to throw them all out to upgrade.

This is why some of us BUILD our own computers.

With a bit of a limited budget and no desire to build your own computer, I'd go for that $370 Compaq. To hand build such a computer:

$50 = CPU
$50 = mobo ($80 for a high end board)
$85 = case and 4000watt PSU (of quality, not excellent)
$75 = HD & DVD drive
$15 = cheap mouse & keyboard (that Hpaq includes) $30~40 for better Logitechs
$45 = 4GB DDR2 800mhz (2 sticks, room to expand to 4 without replacing)
$100 = Vista or WindowsXP

$420 Total Base system

Then add $65 for the ATI 4670.

$485 or so.

Or spend about $700 for the HP + $100 for PSU and 4670 GPU.

[tsheeley]

Oh no, you've got me all wrong... I would love to build my own, I just hadn't realized that parts were so cheap. The last time I built my own machine from scratch was over a decade ago - I was 15 at the time and it was from spare parts from my dad upgrading his own system.

I can only assume from you listing a version of Windows that the 7 RC isn't a full install, just an upgrade? I'm fortunate enough to have a copy of XP Pro with a legit site license, so that money can go towards pre-ordering 7 for October.

Do you recommend any particular CPU and motherboards? I've got no problems going to Fry's and getting parts... or ordering from Newegg. I'd like it to be able to last a while.

[Compiler]

As of today.
Gigabyte motherboard (higher end) / MSI or ASUS or Jetway for lower end
AMD X2 7750 CPU (2.7Ghz) = $50 or so.

SHop on newegg or Frys, for cases and such. There is some good $40~50 PSUs...

I sometimes find FRYs prices to be on par with newegg... and I prefer to get some parts locally. But the video card, newegg since Frys doesn't carry a big enough selection and is where they charge high prices.

I think I already linked to the $65 4670 card.

I dont think there is an upgrade deal for XP > WIn7

[tsheeley]

According to the Microsoft site I can get the 7 upgrade for use with XP, but it has this at the bottom of the page...

* Running earlier versions?
* If you have Windows XP or Windows 2000, you can purchase Windows 7 Upgrade versions. But you must back up your files, clean install, and reinstall your applications.

So I'll have to nuke the drive and do a fresh install of XP then the upgrade on top of that?

I think I'll go with the 7 Pro upgrade for $99, since it can do the XP Mode. I really don't see myself using the BitLocker or language stuff that the Ultimate version has... plus it's so expensive.

I searched the CPU you recommended on Newegg, it's a 64bit dual core? The upgrade for Win7 has both the 32 and 64 versions on it... so does that mean I HAVE to use the 64bit Win7 and only 64bit programs with this processor? I'm not really all that familiar with the 64bit versions and how 32bit stuff interacts with it.

By the way, thank you for giving me all this extra help and advice.

[Compiler]

If you're going to do a built (which I guess we;re changing gears) - provide a shopping list or if you want, I can drop one for you. Make links to newegg. again, I recommend buying some parts locally, like cases.

Example of a link (which will list a brand name of boards)
Motherboard : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e=&srchInDesc=

I'd look at the 740G or 780 series. The 740 ($55) has 2 memory slots, but so does that HPaq for $330~370.

What CPU are you looking at? All current AMDs are "64bit", Almost are 2~4 core models... considering that the cheapest dual core is $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...e=&srchInDesc=

Yeap, Win7 Pro has a few extra features... I thought about it... but since I have more than 1 PC, Having a the XP virtualation mode is not important. Also, its useless for games... so in the end, Pro version offers less reasons to pay for it. Since its an upgrade, I think you have to specify 32 or 64bit. I'd go with 64bit and get it over with... it has own set of "problems", but 64bit is the future and it will run 32bit apps. But all hardware must support 64bit mode (video card, printer, scanner, etc).

Google versions or check out wikipedia.

Of course self-building wont allow you to make payements like with HP. And My suggestions are based on your <$500 budget.

[tsheeley]

I'm all for spending extra money for better stuff if I'm going to build my own - I can space out the parts over a couple of weeks and not have to worry about such a big hit on the bank account all at once.

If you wouldn't mind giving me a hand with a shopping list, it would be very helpful.

I checked out the motherboard link and I'm leaning towards this one for the crossfire support on the GPU. Is it worth the $30 extra for this board that also can do crossfire with the 2nd PCIe slot at 8x instead of 4x?

[Compiler]

I really need to save this... CF & SLI users who buy for possible upgrade, rarely every actually bother to buy the 2nd video card. About 1%.

A single $100 video card (ATI 4850 / 9800GT) is about 6~8x more poweful than the 8400... so lets say you bought the 9800GT, and 18 months later you want MORE performance. You have two problems.
1 - You'd need to find another 9800GT (Of course this would not work on a CF motherboard, but this is an example), maybe a used one for $50 or so.
2 - It still wont be as powerful as a single GTX275 (Currently $200~250) by then, a future card "GTS 350" (as fast or faster than GTX275) may cost $125 and have DX11.
3 - You'd have to invest in either (A) buy a NEW 800~950watt PSU to handle such cards ($125~$200) nor or in the future and (B) add more fans for cooling.

You could have recycled (into a 2nd PC) or sell the card for $50 and replace it with a faster single card.

Your $500 PC can end up blowing up into a $1000 for a possible "upgrade". The $500 PC will smoke what you have now.

I'd go with this $75 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128379 or the $89 board you pointed to.

Because I like NO/LOW noise computer... the 4670 I linked for you is what I'd get.

Order parts in this order:
1 - Case (keyboard and mouse if needed)
2 - Drives
3 - Power Supply & OS
4 - CPU/Mobo/RAM & GPU (together)

You get those last parts together because you don't want to SIT on a motherboard for 1-2 months before finding out its DOA.

If you're looking at future more poweful cards... then look at spending about $60~75 on a 550watt PSU, rather than $40~50 for the HPAQ.

[tsheeley]

You know... the more we work on this, the more excited I'm getting about it.

Here's the parts list I've got together from what you've suggested...

Gigabyte motherboard
AMD CPU
ATI 4670 GPU
500w or 600w Thermaltake PSU (I can't decide which)

From what I've been reading, it looks like I'd be forced to use the 32-bit Win7 if I was to put my XP Pro on the new machine - so I think I might just get the 64-bit Vista Business with the free upgrade to 7 Premium from Newegg or Frys.

All that, plus memory, case, hdd and optical drive should come to about $700 or so.

What do you think? Think I might have a winner here that will last a good 4 or 5 years?

[Compiler]

The free "upgrade" should only really work when you BUY a complete computer from HPaq/Dell/Gateway, etc... Not you buying an OEM CD from Frys. You see, those companies are actually spending about $10 per PC to offer that "free" Win7 disc... The $10 loss is better than people not buying a PC for the next 3~4 months (or getting pissed off).

Using a legit XP, I don't see how that would make any difference in getting Win7 in 32 or 64bit. And if you order Win7 now (which you're supposed to be able to do from Microsoft) you can get it at half price $50 (home) or $100 (Pro).

Parts looks good... Should be closer to $600.

Look at the Antec 900 Case. Its an excellent cool running case on the budget ($50~60). Its not a $100~200, but it does quite well for the price. Other brands to look at: Thermaltake, Gigabyte, Coolermaster. I'll give ya opinions... More expensive cases have filters and more fancy features. But still, that Antec900 is a better case than the HPAQ cases (which DO look very nice) - but I'm refering to space, expansion, noise and cooling.

It should last 3~5 years... but you could keep upgrading a part at a time for 3-7 years. My keyboard was made in 1997. You may later want a quad-core CPU for $75 (when they get that cheap) but it'll be the video card you may replace first.

You're not really a "hard core" gamer, so 4 years or so (with at least 1 video card upgrade) is reasonable. I upgrade a part yearly... a major upgrade 2-3 years. hardcore people upgrade every 6~12 months!

[tsheeley]

Yeah, my current machine has lasted me a good 5 - 6 years... that's been a few hdd upgrades, maxed out memory at 2 gb and the older 128mb GPU. If I can get 4 years out of another machine I'll be very happy. The $700 was including having to buy Vista 64.

I'll check out the cases. I'm not worried about how it looks, as long as it does the job of keeping everything cool and running.

Hmm... I was doing some Google research yesterday and I found a board (don't remember where it was tho) that had a quote from a MS board that you couldn't go from 32 to 64... but, then I found a FAQ question on MS that says I can (see below). The other board just quoted the first paragraph.

***********
Can I upgrade from a 32-bit version of Windows to a 64-bit version of Windows?


No. If you are currently running a 32-bit version of Windows, you can only perform an upgrade to another 32-bit version of Windows. Similarly, if you are running a 64-bit version of Windows Vista, you can only perform an upgrade to another 64-bit version of Windows Vista.

If you want to move from a 32-bit version of Windows to a 64-bit version of Windows Vista, you'll need to back up your files and then perform a custom installation of the 64-bit version of Windows Vista. For more information, see Installing and reinstalling Windows.

For detailed information about installing and upgrading 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows, go to Installation choices for Windows Vista (32-bit) or Installation choices for Windows Vista (64-bit) online.
***********

Take a look at the link above, am I reading this right that I CAN put the 64-bit 7 on top of the 32-bit XP Pro?

[Compiler]

What you linked to is more of a HOW TO update VISTA.

If MS is offering an update for XP and there is a 64bit option - it'll cover XP32 bit as about 99% (estimating) of XP users are 32bit... Not much point in spending $125 for vista and still $100+ for Win7 upgrade. Just buy XP-HOME (unless you have a valid XP license) for $85~99 and use it for a few months and not deal with Vista pain. You can buy Win7 OEM for $100~125... and you'll need to a clean install anyways.

But as I've already stated... if you want to save money and hassle, install Windows7 RC today. Its either free or $10 to order the disc (limited time) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16800996054

You won't have to spend $90~125 or whatever for an OS to use for 3~6 months (if I'm going to Win7, I'll migrate in 2010 - but I'll be install Win7RC on a test system within a week or two). Win7 RC is good until the summer of 2010... So why spend about $200~275 for Vista & Win7 when you can spend about $110~140 for just Win7? Win7 is so much better than Vista... beta or RC.

Here is an idea of the $$$ you'll have to spend for the final Win7: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...pk=Vista%20oem

See... Vista home is $100. Now, there is the $110 Vista + Win7 coupon... (Cool) if you want to TRY that route... but I'd rather use XP or Win7, period. I worked on a Vista box last week... it reminded me why I HATE Vista.

Here is Vista64bit + Win7: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116677

Whenever you're upgrading an OS, you should always do a clean install. So 32bit > 64bit isn't an issue for installing... because you clean install anyways.

================ ================
I gotta go... I have a desktop to build for a client.
The parts are pretty much what you have there. But we bought locally at frys. Next one up motherboard, the AMD 7850 CPU (He wanted the X3 or X4 CPUs... but I talked him out of it because what he does... he'd never notice the difference). No video card, 1TB HD ($100) by Seagate. $150 case by Antec, the P183. 4GB of DDR800 by Corsair with $20 rebate. ($25 is final price), Corsair 400watt PSU at $60. 25.5" Samsung LCD monitor with HD-Tuner built in.

[tsheeley]

Yeah, I saw that it was for Vista... but the process should be the same - since it says you can go from XP to 7 right on the main pre-order page.

So you think I should do the XP install and then the RC7 on top of that? It's not a bad idea. Then I'll already be familiar with 7 when it comes out full. Hmm... when does the RC start doing the 2 hour shutdowns?

[Compiler]

No... I'm saying... if you want to try it out... do a clean install of Win7RC. Don't bother with XP. And if you need drivers and WIn7 are not available - use Vista version.

DL both 32 & 64bit RC versions (or buy) if you want to cover your basis... RC isn't going to be much different from the RTM version (Release To Manufactures) which if "offical". Win7RC will live until next summer. Its the beta versions that are dying now and will be dead in less than 30 days.

And since you have your CURRENT computer operating, it won't be mission critical to try out Win7.

[tsheeley]

Ahhhh... I didn't know you could do an install of RC7 without something to load it on top of.

[Compiler]

Install on top of it? You mean for it to install on top of, right?

With retail OS & upgrade OS - you can upgrade a previous version. OEM version will only allow a clean install. When going to a NEW OS, it should always be a clean install for best results.

I talked to a friend, he's been using RC7 since last December.